The System for Dismantling “Supermom” Culture with Kate Rosenow

Julie: Welcome back to the System For Everything podcast. Today’s system tip need more balance. Simply stop sleeping, stop eating, and stop having needs Problem solved. Today’s guest is someone I cold pitched because of an Instagram story I saw. Okay, let me start by reading it for you because it literally stopped me in my tracks.

So much of my content and systems talk is directed at women because so much of the rest. Of the productivity and habit stacking content in the world is not. This week, I went to orientation at one of my son’s preschools. He attends AM and PM developmental programs that are separate. The room was full of mothers who work full-time outside of the home in addition to their full-time job of being mom, and many took off.

Work to be at this 2:00 PM meeting. All of these moms had all the paperwork records and photos requested by the school, transportation plans for their child, a bag to keep at school with extra clothes and had already been to and scheduled hours. Of evaluations and meetings for their child to even be eligible for these services.

All I could think the whole meaning was how are they doing all of this? These are CEOs of their household that are putting in an additional 40 plus hours at another job. I am uninterested in. The moms are superhero rhetoric with Pat on the back. In a conversation about how to systematically support women in handling the mental load, and it’s not cold showers and switching coffee for celery juice.

Woo. I wanna hit me right in the gut. Everyone please meet Kate Rosenow. She is a business system strategist and the owner of work Well with Kate, where she works with women business owners to streamline and simplify their businesses so they can be more profitable and less busy. In 2014, when Kate started her first business, Maven Li and Co, she realized that the key to designing a sustainable, profitable business was well-built systems to give you freedom and flexibility in your work, to stay in your zone of genius and focus on impact.

Since then, Kate has worked with. Thousands of business owners across the country through group workshops, online trainings, and private coaching, and has planned more than 20 Mastermind events and retreats for business owners across the us. Kate was the host of the award-winning Weekly Women Work and Worth podcast on iTunes, and her insight and advice have been featured in Forbes.

Fortune, real simple, and business insider. I have actually followed Kate for at least three years now on Instagram, and I was so thrilled She took a good chance on me and is here from me, just simply direct messaging her. Welcome, Kate.

Kate: Thank you so much, Julie. I’m so happy to be here and I am. So glad you reread that Instagram message because it reminds me, again, of just like how much that visit to that classroom impacted me.

So thanks for sharing.

Julie: Yes, a hundred percent. All right, everyone. We’re gonna get started, as we always do with the system. Reboot. A quick reset to start our episode with some humor and humanity. All right, let’s strip away the titles of Mother and CEO. What is one area of your life? That you have restructured lately?

Maybe something about hobbies, relationships, or even your own mindset that’s felt like a personal reboot.

Kate: I’m so glad you asked. Actually. The area, and I think this is like very apropos for moms, is hobbies. I’ve like completely restructured my time for my hobbies and I. Used to feel a bit guilty about getting a sitter or having childcare for a hobby, and I’ve completely changed that narrative in my life.

Good. And yeah, like I got very into sewing and I have a sewing class and a, oh, I love that. And it’s been so fun, and I don’t know that I’ll sew anything for anyone, including myself, but just like having something else that requires my focus. That’s not. Work has been so nice and it was something that I had not prioritized or made time for previously that had kind of taken some time to restructure and now have time for in my life.

Julie: I love that. All right. What is your template for a perfect Saturday?

Kate: Ooh, this is a really good question, and I think if we’re thinking about a perfect Saturday that’s realistic, I’m waking up hopefully my son after 7:00 AM which is not always, that’s a very rare occurrence, but hopefully he’s waking up.

After 7:00 AM we are going to get coffee. And then he usually has TaeKwonDo on Saturdays, which actually is a little Oh, cute. Cute. It’s a lot of fun to watch little kids try and learn. Um, ta I

Julie: did it when I was a little, little one,

Kate: so it’s like actually. So fun. So that definitely would be part of my dream Saturday.

And then it would be spending some time with other people in my life, spending some time with. Friends or other family members and going to do an activity. Right now it’s kind of getting called to, going to the coffee shop or going for a walk to like, we already have Christmas lights out, so like seeing Christmas lights out.

Yes. So fun. And then usually it’s going to dinner all as a family. Um, my husband and I both work full time and then, you know, my son’s in school most of the time, so I think if we can all get time together on Saturday too. Eat together. That’s a lot of fun. And then ideally after he goes to bed, we’re doing something like watching a movie or um, having a glass of wine or something like that.

Julie: I love that. All right. What is your go-to? I have nothing in the house dinner.

Kate: Ooh, this is a great question actually because it came up recently is I make this like butter bean stew recipe that like I am someone who like always has. Beans on hand. I don’t know if that’s like my grandmother just like passed down.

Like you always have to have like rice and beans on hand at all.

Julie: Yeah.

Kate: So I’ve been making this like butter beans stew that has the most simple ingredients, but just feels very comforting and cozy. So I feel like it’s something I always have the ingredients for because I am one of those people that will.

Buy groceries and think that I am gonna be my best self and eat all of them. And then I look and all of the produce that I bought is completely spoiled and, and useless. And then I’m, you know, feeling guilt and regret about it. So this meal prevents that and still allows us to have something that is a go-to that’s great to eat.

Julie: I love that and I feel that deeply because that is when you have to, like I did this weekend, make a lot of banana bread because they’re going bad.

Kate: Exactly. Exactly.

Julie: All right everyone, you have met the personality. Now meet the powerhouse. Being a mom is not about being a superhero. It is about carrying the invisible weight of making life run and wondering when exactly we are supposed to breathe.

Here’s my conversation with Kate on the system for dismantling Supermom culture. Okay. I wanna start with the invisible job. The thing that we don’t get paid for, we don’t get promoted for or often even properly acknowledged for.

Kate: Yeah,

Julie: the mental load, the invisible job that is keeping everyone’s lives running.

Even if you are running on fumes, how do you define that mental load and when did you first realize you were carrying more of it than your partner or your peers?

Kate: Yeah, it’s such a great question. I define the mental load as the cognitive and emotional work. That you’re not seeing. So it’s very rarely something that you can write down on a task list, but it’s worrying about the upcoming things or knowing when other things aren’t gonna happen or are gonna happen and how that’s going to impact you.

And then all of the other tasks that surround the core tasks that we kind of know exists. But all the other things around it don’t seem to, uh, come into the fold. And so I have a lot of friends who’ve read. Books like Fair Play, which I think is great, that I’m a big proponent of.

Julie: That’s how I first learned.

Kate: Yeah.

Julie: The name for all of it.

Kate: And I rave about that book. And even in that book, the card deck that comes with it, they’ll have a card for like, mm-hmm. Meals and it’s like, well, meals actually have like 15 tasks associated with them. Like so many meal planning, thinking about dietary restrictions, like who’s traveling this week?

Are we gonna school this week? That impacts what meals we’re getting. Are we going to eat leftovers? Do we have a birthday party this week? Is there something else we need to plan for? Are we gonna have friends come over that also need food? And so. All of those little things aren’t on like a checklist for most people, and they’re not things that, plus the shopping,

Julie: plus the doing, the budgeting,

Kate: right.

The dishes, the like ziplocs to store the food, the like, you know, all the, and the recalls. That’s like another thing that my friends and I talk about is,

Julie: oh my gosh, yes.

Kate: How do we stay on top of, I never even thought of that one old food because of like, which sadly is like a more recent thing that I feel like we’re all having to worry about.

And so I think that even in those situations where we understand kind of like who generally oversees a certain task, even in those examples, I find that there’s much more invisible labor or a mental load that is not being taken into consideration. And I think it’s a big reason. Why we don’t see it taken into consideration because it is something that feels like it can’t be written down.

It’s just happening in the back of our minds and not being taken into consideration in a real way, which I think diminishes its value, which is unfortunate because I think it’s kind of like a city planner job where it’s like we don’t notice how great the city is until there’s potholes or broken lights, and we’re like.

Someone needs to take care of this, but that

Julie: is such a good analogy

Kate: when it’s all running smoothly, so spot on. We’re just like, yeah, that’s how it’s supposed to happen. And it’s like. Well the city planner gets paid and it’s like the, you know, it’s like there’s other elements of, um, that conversation that I think are important.

And I think, you know, admittedly before I had my son, I really was responsible for myself. And so I did feel like it was my responsibility to take care of a lot of things in my life. And I kind of still feel that way. But then once you have this group project of a child, I think it becomes very clear how much more.

Consideration and thinking, especially in today’s world, that has to occur. ’cause my friends and I joke we’re like, you have to have your kindergarten picked up before you get pregnant. Like there’s so many little things like that,

Julie: right?

Kate: Moms have taken into consideration that. For everyone else, it seems like an afterthought.

So I think, you know, once I had my son, it really became so clear to me, and I saw a post recently from Dr. Becky who said, she was like, women are like working maybe 40% more than they did 10 years ago and spending twice as much time with their kids. And she’s like, the math doesn’t work. Like, yeah, of course we’re burnt out.

Of course, we’re feeling overwhelmed. Because an expectation of a great mom is that you’re contributing widely to society and you’re working and you’re spending a time with a ton of time with your kids, and it’s like the pie chart isn’t big enough to facilitate that.

Julie: How do you think couples or people who are co-parenting can start to rebalance that workload without it turning into.

Resentment or score keeping?

Kate: Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the best things that I and admittedly am still working on, but I think has have made a lot of progress on, is thinking about running my house, like running a business. And so I

Julie: love that

Kate: I frequently, you know, talk to, um, the contractors that I work with on my business side, and we’ll say something like, you know, if.

One of us, me and my contractors don’t have time for something. We don’t make it like a moral failing of ours that like, we didn’t have time for something. Yeah. It’s like, oh, we need to hire more people. Or, oh, we need to get a new platform to outsource this, or, oh, we need to like spend some money or cut back or do something.

It’s not a decision that’s made out of like, are we good? Business people. It’s like, no, this is just how business runs. Whereas like I find that it’s the complete opposite in a home where like it becomes a moral failing if like laundry is sitting in the laundry basket or food goes expired, or we can’t be at, you know, the Mother’s Day parade that we got told about three days before it happened and it’s at 10:00 AM when everyone’s working.

Like it becomes a moral failing versus like, if this was a business, we would just objectively say like. We have to handle this differently, so let’s talk about handling it differently. And so

Julie: let’s figure out how to restructure.

Kate: Exactly. And so

Julie: yes,

Kate: that’s actually something that, and I’m so glad we’re having this conversation ’cause this is in beta, but I’m happy to share it with any of the folks that are listening to this podcast.

We’re like, we’re working on something called Household hq, which is like, how do we like look at this? Ooh,

Julie: get the scoop here folks.

Kate: Exactly. Exactly. Literally, I don’t even like. There are so many my peop people in my life that don’t know about this because I am, it’s something that means so much to me that I’m like, I wanna get it right and have it be actually very helpful and not another thing that gets added to people’s plates of things they feel like they should do and then they don’t.

And then they feel guilt and resentment and all of those things. And so I feel like we’re actually at a place where like, wow, this is really helpful for at least. Being the catalyst for conversations for the stakeholders in your house of like, let’s just on paper see where ownership lies for all of these things.

And like, are we even happy with the fact that we do all of these things in our house and like it, does it make sense for the type of household we have? To cook every night or to eat out half of the week. And it’s like, for everyone it’s different, but when you feel like it’s a conscious choice and we’re like deliberately deciding the way you would in a business, you feel so much more empowered and you feel ownership over it versus like, this was thrust upon me and I kind of, uh, had to make this decision in the moment and didn’t feel like I got to do it in a way that was really serving me.

So it kind of. Hopefully reframes that conversation, but is built just like you would build standard operating procedure in a business. You’re building your standard operating procedure for your home, and then instead of saying like, how am I going to do all of this, the question is like, who is going to help do all of these things?

I would

Julie: like to sign up to be an affiliate. Right now I’m obsessed

Kate: and like, honestly, and the the best sign was that all of the folks that have been working in collaborating on this. Have all been using it and then reporting back from the conversations they’ve had. And I remember Sarah, who’s working on it with us, she was like, I didn’t even realize that like my husband was so excited to do these things.

If I had just like had the conversation with him about the fact that he was like open to doing it. It was like I had this story in my mind that like. He wouldn’t want to do this, or I just have to do this because it’s convenient for me. Lo and behold, he was excited and wanted to do it the whole time. We just didn’t have ever have a catalyst for that conversation.

Um, or like, I think that everyone wants their laundry done immediately, within 24 hours every day. Come to find out, my whole household doesn’t care that it gets. Done, at least as it’s done by Sunday or something like that. Yeah. It’s just a catalyst for those conversations of like, oh, our household can run differently.

It doesn’t have to be beholden to just like how things have been or the way things have fallen because, uh, it’s just been kind of the secondary part of our life.

Julie: I wanna keep pulling at that thread and kind of get into productivity lies that we’ve been sold, because I swear if I see one more morning routine reel with a mom waking up at four 30 to get in her workout, I might riot.

Why do you think that’s so much productivity advice out there? Feels completely irrelevant or even like insulting to working moms.

Kate: I honestly think the answer is we’re so susceptible to finding solutions or like having a fix when there is so much of motherhood that is just deeply inconvenient. And part of it is like accepting the, like I, I think maybe I feel this most deeply because I had a not great sleeper as a kid, and it’s like there’s no.

Advice about what supplements I should be taking, or green juice I should be having, or circadian rhythm, all of this stuff, I’m like, that doesn’t matter. When a kid is screaming every hour, like on the hour. When I’m trying to sleep, everything else goes out the window. And so the idea that I would then after having been up every hour on the hour, hop onto Instagram and think that I should be going to do like a hit class, like, like it’s insulting and it’s like, I think that ultimately I had done another Instagram post on this because I think I was feeling riled up again about the lack of sleep, but it’s like.

Julie: I love it spicy Kate.

Kate: And honestly, I feel like it’s like fueled something in me that I’m like. I think the narrative that like you, there’s this version of productivity that doesn’t align with motherhood, while also most mothers are like the most productive, efficient, and effective. People I know, but they are effective at like managing the fact that their kid isn’t sleeping or on two hours of sleep.

Also, getting them dressed, getting them to school, getting them fed, thinking about the vaccines, thinking about the Valentine’s Day cards. Like they’ve actually made about 40 more decisions than like their counterparts at work who maybe aren’t Oh my God. Absolutely. To do that. And so, you know, I think like.

My friend Jess and I always joke, we’re like, I don’t want to read the CEO’s like productivity book. I wanna read like his wife and his nanny’s productivity book because like, yes, they have the insight of like, oh, how do I actually do the things that require me to be a mom and me to be a working person?

And if I don’t have the assumed. Act like really luxuries of like sleeping, eating when you want, you know, going to bed, working out when you want. A lot of that is not up for debate and discussion for moms. Recognizing that and then also having the conversation of like what is in my control to change and what’s not, and not giving myself a hard time about the things that I can’t control.

’cause I think that there is some ownership and power and autonomy and saying like. Oh, you know what kinda like I was saying about the sewing, it’s like I can carve out time and I do think this is valuable and I am gonna spend money on a sitter and like I love that feeling of empowerment. There’s no version of that for my son not sleeping.

There’s no version of that. That’s like, I can decide, I’m just not gonna like. You know, listen and, and attend to my son’s needs. It’s like, no. Yeah, not, not an option. And so I think giving yourself a lot of grace and realizing like the goal is not to be productive. You have a season in your life where like the goal is really to like survive.

And if you’re surviving and making it like that is like climbing Everest every day. And then there are seasons of your life where it’s like, actually I can be making plans or I can be doing things differently to support. Myself and my wellbeing and my mental health and doing that proactively, I think is just as important.

Um, and I, I’ve seen myself make both of those decisions in different times based on what I thought was right. But I think knowing that both things exist, you can be making empowered decisions for yourself when you have the ability and taking care of yourself. And when you don’t have that luxury of being able to focus on yourself, maybe because you’re in the.

Newborn postpartum stage, or there’s something going on. Oh yeah, child. That demands that attention. Like giving yourself so much grace and not trying to force the workouts and the hobbies and the green juices, and allowing yourself to have some. Solace in the fact that it’s temporary.

Julie: Is there a system or tool out there that you actually love because it makes your life easier and not just busier?

Kate: I would say, and this is a new love, and I think people listening would maybe be shocked because I’ve never really talked about it before, but I was. Hard sold by one of my contractors and now I love it. And a little backstory, like I’m a big believer in starting with what’s working. And so like mm-hmm. If I’m already using a platform, how can I use that platform more to accomplish my goals?

And so I find that most of us have iPhones. Fortunately, or unfortunately, most of us use that device, and so hacking that to make Apple reminders really helpful has been a changer. It’s one of those tools or apps where, because it comes on your phone and because it’s not business related. We haven’t really tried to optimize it.

And so that’s part of household HQ is like how do we optimize Apple reminders to have it automatically show up on your husband’s phone, automatically have it show up on your nanny’s phone, like pop up in their Apple calendar, like where they already are. Because the truth is exactly what you were hinting at Julie, where it’s like, we don’t need another app.

We don’t need another thing. No, we don’t need somewhere else to go. So like. If my husband’s gonna be like staring at his phone, reading his work emails, I’m just gonna have that notification automatically pop up right above that’s like, Hey, that’s

Julie: awesome.

Kate: Go buy cupcakes today. Great. And you just had to like share it with him once before and then like now it just pops up on his phone.

And so that’s been the most fun part of testing household, household HQ is we screenshot the messages that like our. Household members send us back that. It’s like, wait, did you just assign this to me? Or like, Hey, wait, what’s that thing that you just said? We’re like, it’s working. Like so the fact that Apple reminders automatically pops up on your phone as like a notification, it shows up in your Apple calendar and you can share it and attach notes to it.

It has quickly come from like Zero to hero on my. Like systems list for personal stuff, for work stuff. I think it’s a little bit more complex, but at least for managing stuff. Personally, it’s been, it’s been the dark horse for sure.

Julie: Oh, I love that there’s something very freeing about getting permission not to get a new planner.

Kate: Exactly, exactly.

Julie: I think, you know, there’s this idea that that moms are superheroes and you know, a paper that sounds so empowering, but in reality it’s just exhausting. So. How do you see the Supermom label hurting more than helping?

Kate: I had a friend who worked in public education and she used to always say, if someone at your job called you a superhero, it means you’re being underpaid.

And I love, loved that. That’s good. It’s like, no one’s calling Jeff Bezos a superhero. It’s like, it’s almost like we give that title to folks where it’s like. We know you’re not being compensated or being re like given the things you need and deserve because for the job you you’re doing. So we’re gonna make ourselves feel better about giving you a verbal accolade.

And really, in my opinion, it’s an acknowledgement that like. Oh yeah, this is labor that’s going unpaid or it’s devalued or depreciated because a superhero, uh, in name feels like you’re going above and beyond, like the expectation of you is at a certain level and like you’re going above and beyond and doing more.

Then really should be expected of you based on

Julie: Yeah.

Kate: Um, you know, the, the value and the merit. We’ve given it through actual compensation and appreciation in that way. And so, yeah, it’s one of the reasons I am not a fan of that term because I think then it gives people the like checkbox and comfort they need of like, oh, we called her a superhero, so we kind of gave her the validation so we don’t need to give her other things that would actually be valuable.

Time. Yeah. Or resources or money or things like that. So I think that that’s why that nomenclature feels like, uh, maybe offensive is a little bit too strong of a term, but just feels like it’s not appropriate because really, like, I don’t wanna feel like a superhero. I wanna feel like someone that can like.

Be my own person and be a mom. Usually when you’re a person who’s doing that well, you’re not necessarily seen as like a superhero mom. You’re usually seen, unfortunately, in today’s society as like, uh, sometimes more of like a selfish mom or someone who’s like not fully doing well in one area or the other.

Um, and so I think restructuring that language and thinking about like what would actually be helpful to these quote unquote supermoms is a much more valuable discussion.

Julie: It’s like we’re like all trying to win an imaginary award for most overextended human and nobody even wants the freaking trophy.

Kate: It’s like, just keep it actually,

Julie: yeah. I don’t want another thing I have to dust off.

Kate: Exactly. I love it.

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So I wanna dig into what that looks like in practice. How do you differentiate between a system that serves you versus one that just looks good on paper?

Kate: Yeah, I, I honestly think that one of the ways to do this best is to look at the amount of time you’re spending. In that system and then look at the output.

So I’ll probably get a lot of flack for this, but I know a lot of folks love Notion. So like Notion is like a pro, a project management system that’s on the scene and people love it because it’s beautiful and you can customize it and you can see all this stuff, all these different ways. But I find it like the master of.

Productive procrastination where like people will spend like three hours,

Julie: oh, making the list look beautiful instead of checking things off.

Kate: Exactly.

Julie: Totally. See that. I get that.

Kate: And so I see that much more often and I’m someone, I mean like look, you’ll see like I have paper, I have notebooks, I have all the things.

Yeah. Because it helps me process maybe in a certain way while I’m on a call.

Julie: Tactile.

Kate: Exactly. Tactile. That helps me quite a bit, but like I want something ultimately that just makes my output easier. I think especially as a mom and a business owner, we’re looking for like, how can I get. The most important things done and what can help me get the most important things done.

And I think when we have those types of platforms, they’re serving us versus ones where we have to remind ourselves to go there. Every time we go there, we have to clean it up quite a bit. Or the other people that are on the team with us aren’t actually using it, and it becomes much more tedious. And so anytime I’m doing an initial onboarding, I’m like.

What are the platforms we love and hate? What makes us like the platforms that we like? What makes us hate the platforms that we hate? Because if there’s a, someone saying, you know, I really love this platform and I use it every day, and it helps me accomplish the things that I need. I don’t care if I like it or not.

If you’re using it and it’s help you helping you accomplish the goal that you have, like I’m gonna find a way for us to just optimize that system versus shifting.

Julie: Yeah. Systems are not one size fits all.

Kate: So much of it is just stacking on the habits you already have and making it less filled with friction than you would otherwise.

Julie: If someone is listening right now and they feel like they are just absolutely drowning. Where’s one place they, they can start.

Kate: I actually, and I do this even when I’m, when I feel like I’m drowning even with all the systems, I was just having a conversation with a client this morning where I said, you know, like you can do this, and you’ll feel like you’re on top of a cloud at the end of this conversation, and in three months because your child is shifting daycares, or your nanny quit, or your whole team is new, or you got a new type of client that doubles your workload.

You will now feel again like you’re at the bottom of the mountain and we have to climb back up. Yeah. And when I feel that way, and I really, even if I don’t feel this way, I do this every quarter where I genuinely just like take out a piece of paper or if you’re someone who’s like needs a bigger space, like get a poster board and just dump all of the things that are on your head, everything that’s in your brain, everything that’s like, ’cause I’m the type of person, I think most moms are like this, where it’s like.

I am both thinking about like the proposal I just sent out and the cupcakes for the Thanksgiving parade, and also it’s my mother’s birthday and oh yeah, I told my husband I’d plan on this trip, and it’s like all of those things are in my mind of equal priority and importance, so it’s not until I can get it on paper, there’s something about getting it out of your head and for me, writing it down, even if I’m gonna transfer it into a, a, a digital system, getting it out and just seeing it.

It physically is more contained than it is in your brain. And even if in your brain it feels like 10,000 tasks when we write it out, maybe it’s only 800 tasks or whatever it is. Yeah. And there’s something about it that now we can work with it. When we just have the thoughts bouncing around in the container, that is our brain.

It feels massive. If it is massive, we need to get it on paper. And if it’s not, it makes us have a little bit of a silent of relief, like, oh, it felt like 80 things in my head, but really it’s 10 and five of these I can give to my husband, and two of these I can give to someone on my team. And so actually it feels like much more manageable.

I find that outcome happens much more often, which makes me feel great. And then when it is actually a lot of stuff, I think like. It’s unreasonable for anyone to expect one person to do this. So who, yeah, what stakeholders do I need to bring in so that this isn’t solely my responsibility? And I don’t think enough women, I didn’t used to feel that way.

I feel that way now, and I don’t think enough women feel like they have permission to feel that way. And so that’s a skill that I’ve developed that is probably the most important skill that I would hand on to any new mom or current mom that feels like she’s drowning, which is like my first reaction when I have a lot to do is not like.

Why can’t I get all of this done? It’s that like no one should be expected to get all of this done. If it is being expected of me, then I need to give myself grace. And if I do have other opportunities, let’s bring those people in and say like. Hey, actually like, yeah, I would love to find, this was an actual request.

I would love to find four boxes of the little Debbie brownie trees to bring to the Thanksgiving meal.

Julie: Yeah.

Kate: The reality is I can’t drive to five grocery stores today to find those, and so I’m going to call a friend or a neighbor that feels like they might be able to do that, or I’m gonna have a realistic conversation about how like.

That’s not something that’s gonna get done. And so I think that this, that’s kind of where the Supermom piece comes in. I think. It’s like, oh, well, we’ll figure it out and we will like be driving while we’re like reciting the note cards for the spelling bee tomorrow. And it’s like, no, I, I think there’s a element of like, we kind of collectively have to give ourselves permission to be like.

I’m gonna, I’m in a tough season. I’m gonna give myself grace and not have to do other things. And maybe we’re gonna have McDonald’s for dinner and that’s just how things work right now. Or hey, who else can come in on this and like, feel, feel some of that mental load and share some of that. And I think honestly, the more conversations I’ve had with my husband, the better we’ve gotten at that.

And like giving up some of those moments where it’s like someone has to be at the school at 10:00 AM. Sometimes it’s me, sometimes it’s you. And so now we both actually have more of an appreciation for each other and kind of feel on the same team of like, we both recognize like, like this sucks or like, we hate doing this, rather than like, uh, pointing that at each other.

It’s like we can kind of point that at the problem when we both kind of are feeling that weight of the mental load or the load that feels a little bit unrealistic.

Julie: I love that your version of. Balance is not color coded. It’s compassionate.

Kate: That’s exact. I’m so glad you said that that way. That’s exactly, that’s exactly right.

Because I mean, truthfully, I don’t know anyone that I would want to be. Or that I admire that feels like they have a true, like I’m able to go get the little Debbie brownie trees and I’m able to feed my kid a nutritious meal, and I’m able to get all my work done. Like I genuinely, mm-hmm. I don’t know anyone like that.

And I think if I met someone like that, I feel like I would find something else about them that they’re like, actually AI or like. I just, all the women that I meet in my life are like simultaneously like running these major businesses and like also showing up to the airport with like mismatched shoes and like don’t have their ID.

And like their kid also like now has pneumonia and they have to rush back home. Like that’s kind of like consistently always the story. And I feel so much comfort knowing that like, oh, their kids are turning out great. Their, their businesses, even if it’s not growing, it’s like steadily getting by and like.

They’re not giving themselves a hard time about it. Like that has been the greatest gift for me is like seeing women in front of me who I feel like have more work, have more kids, have more demands on their time, and when they fall, they’re kind of like, yeah, of course. Like it’s like, yeah, like I’m not gonna be able to do all the things and I’m not going to all of the parades and I shouldn’t.

Shonda Rhimes has a great commencement speech on this where she’s like. When I was like at the final reading of Grey’s Anatomy, I was like missing a swim meet. And when I was at the ballet recital, I was missing like Carrie Washington’s final scene and like, that is the game. Yeah. Like that’s kind of what we’ve signed up for.

And her, and she loves that. Her daughters see that she’s a powerful woman at work and she loves that. The people at work see that she’s also able to be a mom. And through that she’s, she’s demonstrating this compassionate leadership of like. There is no a hundred percent on both sides at all times. No one’s doing 200%.

Julie: Yeah.

Kate: And they either have resources or they’re letting things drop.

Julie: There’s, I think, I mean, we, we have a, a major highlight real problem today. You know, with the, I have a lot of opinions on a lot of influencers, but I’m not naming names, I’m not trying to get sued, uh, you know, people that claim to be in this, you know, authenticity era.

But so much of what we see from these big names online, I mean, feels. Impossible. And they just, I think it just feels soul sucking because it’s, you know, these spotless houses without showing the housekeeper the color coded like pantry without showing the organizer that did it for free as part of a brand partnership.

Kate: Yeah.

Julie: Like why do you think that the Internet’s version of balance looks so different from real life? And have you ever found yourself trying to live up to that perfect day in the life? And if so, what snapped you out of it?

Kate: Yeah, it’s such a great question and I think there’s this vicious cycle that I see where someone will try to be truly authentic and like share all of the resources.

And then they also get backlash of like, that’s not attainable for everyone. And like, why would you show your housekeeper like that Sopr or whatever it is. And so I think. In some ways there’s this cycle of like, it feels like all women can’t win. And so yeah, even in that, I’ve gotten like a little bit like, oh man, yeah, I do see like I, it makes me feel icky and angry to see someone with like a spotless house or that’s like doing all of the things.

And then when they share how they do that, instead of most people being like, oh thanks, I was like holding myself to this expectation and like I realize now it’s just because like. There’s seven people on your team versus one and like, that’s great to know. There’s like this moral judgment of like, you should both be able to do it all and have things together.

And it’s like in all ways, we’re kind of perpetuating a little bit of that. Yeah. Where’s like, and I’ve seen this kind of systemically, I talk to my friends about it a lot, especially over the past like two, three years, where it’s like, mm-hmm. Um, it, it’s kind of like a tall poppy syndrome where it’s like, no, we don’t want any women to be able to like, have some semblance of like, having both of these things in a way that they want.

And so we have to like find their pain point to like poke at, to be like, oh, you’re either like selfish or like privileged or pretentious, or you’re like not taking care of your kids enough and you should be able to do this, and why aren’t you doing the things? And so it’s like. If you get help, you’re criticized.

If you don’t get help, you’re criticized. And I think that that actually kind of to your point, it’s like the, the thing that’s kind of snapped me out of it when I see the like perfectly curated home is I’m like, I know it’s unattainable for one person to do that, and most likely she has. Seven people behind the camera that are helping and if that’s how she’s chosen to run that and I don’t have the resources or I’m not gonna prioritize that, those are simply the choices we’re making.

And so this is a place where it’s also helpful for me to like think about the home as a business where it’s like some business owners, like a really lean team, like I don’t have full-time employees and I like that. And then I could look at the cover of Forbes and be like. Oh, well, why does she get to be this and how did she make the, and it’s like, and she’s managing a hundred people, and like that’s a business decision she made for her business because she wanted it to be this type of business.

It’s kinda like comparing like a SaaS company to like the donut shop, and it’s like, these are, we’re not even like, yes, they’re both businesses technically, but it would be like going to the SaaS company and be like, oh, it must be nice to have like a thousand employees. And it’s like, well, this is like a choice that we made to like be able to grow and like do this thing.

And same thing with like the donut shop, where it’s like we chose not to have a lot of employees because we like the personal interactions that we have with our customers, or we like being able to like cook in the kitchen altogether. And that’s not seen as like a moral decision by any CEO. It’s like, oh, this is the kind of business I wanna run and so I’m gonna run it.

And it’s like, great. We love the local coffee shop and we also love the like. Large coffee roaster and like they just made different decisions with how they run their business and fine. Yeah. But it has become, when we don’t look at our homes as business and we look at it as a reflection of like if we’re good people, if we’re good mothers, if we’re good homemakers, if we’re good at running our household, like there has to be a statement about some way you’re not doing it correctly.

And that I think is like the hardest vicious cycle that like when we can realize we’re never gonna get it right. There is like a. A, a deep breath we can take of like, yeah. I did not spend, I have friends who have home managers. And they are spending their money on a home manager and it’s providing them certain things.

And also I don’t have the type of home where like that would be something I want or that’s suitable. And so I could see like a Instagram reel of her having like these perfectly curated meals and feel envious or feel like, oh, like technically. I guess that’s a decision I could make if I wanted to structure my life this way.

And like, is that something I want? And, and to feel like it’s a decision versus to feel like we, like were playing musical chairs. And I got sat on the house with like no house manager. Um, and it’s like I have friends that have house managers and also they like don’t do pick up at school. They don’t go to the soccer games.

You know, they work a ton to be able to afford the resources to have this house manager. And so there’s also this feeling of like. All of the parents judging them for not being at the soccer game or like coming up to them at graduation and be like, so great to see you here. We never see you. I know.

You’re so, yeah, exactly. So it’s like, you know what the, the, the greatest comfort is in that. No one has cracked the code. Even when people are getting help, there is some other place where they’re getting critiqued or feeling less than, or if they’re not feeling less than in their home because their homes are wreck, they’re feeling less than when they show up to the parent social and they haven’t been to an event at school in

Julie: seven months.

Ugh. All right. We’re gonna take a second and step out of motherhood for a second. And when you think about the version of yourself before kids, what do you think she would be proud of right now?

Kate: Hmm. Wow. I think what she would be proud of right now is that I am working on a, a, a version of the Serenity Prayer, basically, which is like, I’m.

Accepting the things I cannot change and having the courage to change the things I can. And I think that that piece, I was very worried before I became a mom of like, will I lose myself to motherhood or will I focus too much on my career and neglect my child? In fact, I had lots of conversations specifically with men in my life who had a mom that had.

A really demanding job to kind of like see how it impacted them and got some great feedback from them. But I think that on the other side, now seeing me in this position where it’s like I am allowing myself to make decisions that are quote unquote selfish and spend quality time with my son, even if it’s 20 minutes a day, that feel giving and feel whole and joyful and like I am.

Able to be present with him, and I think she would be very happy to see that, like I am, at least if it’s not daily, maybe on a monthly basis, like focusing on, on doing both in a way that works for me.

Julie: Kate, thank you so much for taking the time to this conversation. Please tell everyone where they can find you online, how they can work with you, especially about your systems VIPs days, and I wanna hear, of course, more about household HQ when we can expect that.

Kate: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for this conversation. I’ve actually never had. A version of this conversation like this. So it’s such a, oh,

Julie: I’m so glad

Kate: to be able to talk about it in this way. So, um, you can find me at work well with Kate. And so that’s my Instagram handle and my, um, website. So I’m work well with kate.com.

And then household HQ should be, I’m like putting myself on a timeline, um, knocking wood. Ready in March. But if someone listens to this and they want to message me, you can email me at Kate at work well with kate.com and if you wanna, um, beta test or get access to it early in, it’s in its raw version. I’m happy to send it along.

Julie: All right, thank you so much. Before we wrap up, I want to end with a little system shut down, a reminder to unplug, laugh, and not take ourselves too seriously. For closing out today with a fast five, and since this episode was all about dismantling super mom culture, we are going to celebrate the fictional moms who proved that perfection was never the point number one.

Tammy Taylor from Friday Night Lights, clear eyes, full hearts, and no patience for nonsense. The absolute blueprint for showing up with grace and boundaries. Number two, Molly Weasley from Harry Potter, the woman who mastered both. Motherhood and murder spells. Don’t cross a mom with a wand and a to-do list.

Her real magic wasn’t the spells. It was making everyone feel at home, even in chaos. Number three, Moira Rose from Schitt’s Creek. You might be surprised by this choice, but I think it’s proof that motherhood can include wigs and a robust vocabulary. Drama optional fabulousness mandatory. Number four, Jessica Wong from Fresh Off the Boat, part Tiger Mom, part Life Coach, demanding excellence, but redefining what success looks like for her family on her own terms.

And number five, Linda Belcher from Bob’s Burgers sings through the chaos, loves her weird family loudly and always finds a reason to celebrate. Usually with wine and jazz hands. None of these women had it all together, but they loved hard. Laughed louder and kept showing up. Anyway, that’s the real system we’re all trying to build.

That’s it for today’s episode. Remember, you don’t need to earn rest. You don’t need to prove your worth by running on fumes. The mental load is real and it’s incredibly heavy, and it’s okay to drop some of the balls that were never yours to juggle in the first place. If you loved this conversation, please make sure you’re following this.

System for everything. Wherever you listen to podcasts, new episodes drop every Thursday, and if you’re feeling extra generous, leave a quick rating or review. It helps more people find the show and gives my ego a tiny serotonin boost. Until next time, take care of your systems and yourself.