The System for Writing the Book You Actually Want to Write with Jamie Varon

What if your most honest, messy self is your greatest writing superpower? In this episode, I sit down with Jamie Baron, bestselling author, essayist, and creative force, to crack open what it really takes to write the book that only you can write.

Jamie has built a body of work that’s at once personal and deeply resonant—from her viral essays to bestselling nonfiction to novels. We unpack how she developed her voice over a decade of trial and error, her ritualistic approach to writing even when the ideas feel impossible, and how she navigates outside expectations while keeping her art grounded.

You’ll come away with intimate access to her creative process, permission to let your work be messy, and inspiration to keep writing even when you doubt.

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Why Voice Is the Heart of Your Work

For Jamie, finding her authentic voice was less about technique and more about permission. She spent years writing, failing, revising, and slowly shedding the impulse to “sound like someone else.” Over time, she learned to trust that her voice, even in its rough edges, is what gives her work its power. The breakthrough came when she stopped remaking others’ ideas and started saying things the way she wanted to say them.

That shift didn’t just make her writing better—it made it hers. And when your work sounds like you, it resonates. Readers may not know why they feel connected, but they do. Voice creates that tether.

How Ideas Land (Often When You Least Expect Them)

Jamie doesn’t use rigid outlines. Instead, she embraces a holistic, fragment-driven method: snippets of dialogue, thematic seeds, intuition. She lets scenes lead her to the next step. Her notes app is meticulously organized. For her, the story reveals itself over time.

That freedom allows her characters to evolve naturally and gives her space to follow the emotional energy of the story. It’s less about controlling the plot and more about discovering what the book wants to be.

Rituals & Constraints → Creative Freedom

One of Jamie’s most powerful systems is her writing container. She guards a block of time (typically morning hours) for writing and protects it fiercely. That structure shifts the creative burden: instead of waiting for inspiration, she makes space for it. Even when traveling, she leans into that ritual. She’s trained her brain to expect ideas at the boundary of structure.

Consistency, in her case, creates flow. Writing at the same time each day—even just for an hour or two—sends a signal to her subconscious: this is when we create and the ideas arrive.

Feedback, Industry Pressure & Staying True

There’s no denying authors receive a deluge of advice from agents, editors, and readers. Jamie is deliberate about what she lets in. She looks for editors who support her vision, and when critiques emerge, she filters them thoughtfully. She’s had multiple agents before, and she’s grown comfortable with change. At the core, she holds firm to her voice: she’s not trying to follow trends or conform—that’s how her work remains honest.

Her advice is clear: your job isn’t to absorb everything. Your job is to write your book. The one only you can write.

What to Do If You Feel Like “Everything’s Been Done”

Jamie’s advice is a love note to the doubtful writer: you can say what’s been said before, but your version is still needed. Don’t chase originality in the abstract; chase truth in your words. Write anyway. Give yourself small consistent action. The first book you write might feel like a rough draft of your life, but it will also teach you what you’re made of.

The Books That Shaped Her (and Me)

In our final moments, Jamie shared the titles that cracked her open: What Alice Forgot by Liane Moriarty, Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, and Save the Cat Writes a Novel. Each one revealing a different layer of what writing could be.

Books leave breadcrumbs. Follow enough of them, and they lead you home to your own words.

Find It Quickly:

Resources Mentioned:

• What Alice Forgot
• Big Magic
• Save the Cat! Writes a Novel
• The Phantom Tollbooth
• The Westing Game
• Eleanor Oliphant is Completely Fine
• The Happy Ever After Playlist

• Radically Content (Book)
• Radically Content (The Journal)
• The Alchemy Within
• Main Character Energy
• Charlie Quinn Lets Go

Connect with Jamie:

• Website: jamievaron.com
• Instagram: instagram.com/jamievaron
• Facebook: facebook.com/jamievaron

 

Review the Transcript:

Julie: Welcome back to the System for Everything podcast. Today’s system tip title, your documents, something chaotic and non-committal. How about book underscore draft underscore, final underscore, final two underscore definitely final dot doc. I think that’s the only acceptable option. Today’s guest I am so excited about.

I’m trying not to be a crazy fan girl, but today’s guest is Jamie Baron and. Author and Creative who lives in Calabasas, California. Her writing has been seen across the internet for years from her early days of personal blogging all the way to features and publications. Over the years, both her long form essays and short form prose have garnered millions of reads and views.

Her debut work of nonfiction Radically Content was an instant Amazon and Barnes and Noble bestseller and is on the shelf behind me. Her debut novel Main Character Energy, and her first self-published novel, the Alchemy Within are both Out now and her second novel, Charlie Quinn, let’s Go. Came out just a few days ago and is available wherever you get your books.

And full disclosure, I have been a fan of Jamie’s. Four years sliding into her dms. I mean, we are talking, followed on Twitter, shatter box website, ogling level fandom. I took her braingasm and living with intention courses back in the day. I still have artwork from an app she created over 10 years ago as my iPhone background.

There is a framed print of her writing in this very office I’m recording from, and I realize that this sounds like I am one decorative pillow away from a restraining order, but I hope it speaks to just how deeply her words have stuck with me through different seasons of my life when brainstorming this podcast, Jamie was truly a bucket list guest for me, and I can’t believe you agreed to come on.

Thank you so much for being here.

Jamie: That’s an amazing intro. Thank you so much for having me. I’m honored that you have been with me for all those years ’cause I have done a lot of reinventing. So thank you for being on the journey and I’m so glad to be here. Thank you, Jamie. All

Julie: right, we’re gonna get started, as we always do with the system reboot.

A quick reset to start our episode with some humor and humanity. Jamie, you are building your dream writing retreat. Three must have features

Jamie: go. I think dream writing retreat, it has to be. I just see it in my head. Very luscious, very comfortable. I know some people like a little. Sparse, but I am not into sparse.

I would like it to be, you know, uh, cozy couches and uh, like I want a beverage fridge. I want a beverage fridge because beverages are everything to me as a writer and many snacks. And as my fourth bonus, I would want it somewhere where like. Just stepping outside. It’s absolutely beautiful and you can just like go on walks and get your ideas and, um, all of that just sounds incredible to me.

Julie: That does sound great. Okay. When you’re writing, what is your go-to comfort show? To decompress or get out of writer’s block?

Jamie: I mean, the show that I watch every single day, no matter what is Brooklyn Nine nine, so genius. It’s the best. It’s the absolute best. Everyone’s nice to each other. I just love it.

Yes.

Julie: What is the weirdest place an idea for a book ever hit you?

Jamie: I don’t think anything weird, but there’s been many times where I am dripping wet from the shower. Can’t even like take the time to dry off, have to find my phone to write an idea down. I mean, several that is, and that’s not just like an idea for a scene or a piece of dialogue, like I think even one time.

I had to go to my bathroom counter with shampoo still in my hair to write something because I was like, do not forget this. So that’s probably the weirdest experience because once the idea hits, I can’t, I’m too scared to lose it, so I have to get it down

Julie: immediately. All right everyone. You have met the personality.

Now meet the powerhouse from Substack essays to publishing deals. Jamie has carved out a space that feels less like a brand and more like a breath of fresh air. Let’s pull back the curtain on how she writes with honesty and why that honesty is her superpower. Here’s my conversation with Jamie on the system for writing the book.

You actually, so many writers start by trying to. Em sound like someone else, but your voice is so distinctly yours. When did you first start writing in a way that truly felt like you?

Jamie: Yeah, I love that question so much because I do think for a long time, part of the reason why I just couldn’t really get past the finish line with drafts was I.

I think all writers have a voice in their head that’s sort of narrating the book, like, you know, an idea and it’s the worst sinking feeling when you get to the page and it doesn’t sound like that voice and you’re not able to translate what it is, whether that’s because the skill level is not there yet, or you are consuming too many other people’s work.

So in a sense, I mean, I, I would say. By the time I wrote the draft for main character Energy, I was to the point, and that was in 2020. Um, I was to the point where, and this is novels, I mean, radically content is different, but I’ll just speak to novels ’cause I think that’s a little easier to talk about in this sense.

I, I was to the point where I was like, okay, I just need to. I need to just come up with ideas that are fresh to me and not be thinking of, I’m not gonna try to be the next X, Y, or Z. I’m not gonna try to do things the way that I’ve seen anyone else do. I’m just gonna bet on myself, like, what is the book that I wanna read?

What is the book that I wanna write? And it took a long time because I do think there was a lot of. Drafts of different ideas that even the ideas felt derivative of something else. And you know, I’d read a book and I’d be like, oh well, and then I’d just like remix the idea of that book into something.

And I’m very glad that that wasn’t. You know what got published. ’cause sometimes a derivative idea can get published. And in fact right now, derivative ideas are people are really into those. It wasn’t my path. So I’m glad that that wasn’t something that I had to get tied into because once you start doing something that takes off, I don’t know, people just keep expecting that from you.

So I’m very glad that at this point I can now block everything out. But it takes, it takes discipline in a sense. Like I have to stop reading at a certain point. You know? I have to block out everything, even if an idea, I have to be very honest with myself when an idea, I’m like. I just saw that on a show, or, you know, or like, I just read that, you know, and I’m like, okay, let’s, let’s take this a little further.

You know? So I have to, you know, kind of, kind of go to that point. But it, it wasn’t until it probably took, I would say, you know, a decade. Of writing. Writing, sometimes consistently, sometimes inconsistently, but a decade of putting my words out there, putting my words on a page that I was like, I trust my voice and I’m gonna live or die by my voice.

Make a rick and there’s nothing else I can do. You know, at this point, if I try to do something that sounds like something else, it. It doesn’t get finished. It, it, it, it, the, the steam that I have, the motivation runs out and I just go, okay, well then I need to, you know, I need to trash this one, and that’s okay

Julie: from.

Nonfiction to fiction. All of your books really carry your voice just kind of dressed in different clothes. What is your process when you get a new idea? Do you outline? Do you just follow the characters and let them

Jamie: see where they go? Every time it’s kind of different. But for the most part, the ideas come to me in kind of these fragments for main character energy.

I got the idea of the theme first. It was like a writer with self-doubt. What’s what? What does that look like? And you know how she doesn’t think she deserves a good life. And then it like all kind of the world builds out from there. With Charlie Quinn, let’s go. The idea of. It started as a year of yes, but then I condensed it to a month of Yes.

And so what? Then I had to kind of build out who this person is because if she needs a a month of yes meaning like she needs to get out of her every day, what kind of person is she? What do I wanna explore? And I really wanted to explore the way that ambition can become a way to sort of escape life too.

Like being too perfectionist, being too obsessed with work to the extent that you are, act actually abstaining from life and joy and things like that. From there, I get like snippets. I mean, it’s, I have an extensive, um, my notes app is, it extensively meticulously organized and I throw my ideas there all the time.

Like I, I, I wish I was the type of person that carried around like a leather bound notebook, and I was just always like. Scribbling, you know, like, I’m just like, specific color code. Depends. Yeah. I’m just like, you know, walking around with my, my black rimmed glasses making notes. But no, I’m just using my phone ’cause it’s always on me.

But I have it very organized and I get like, you know, I’ll hear the dialogue in my head or, you know, she’s the type of person that does this or, you know, I’ll, I’ll get a lot of the conversations in my head and, and then they get into the book. I wish I could say I outline. I don’t, I don’t outline anything.

The way that I write is, is I let the story tell me what it wants to be. It’s very holistic, it’s very spiritual. I sit down and I write a scene and then I am done, and then I go into my day and I write in the morning. And then I go into my day and I go on a walk and I think about it all day. What would be next?

What’s the natural next thing? ’cause I find when I’ve outlined in a way that I thought a writer should, uh, in my uhhuh quotes, I have always limited myself. It always feels limited because my ideas. They’re just what I think would happen. But I haven’t written a scene yet. I don’t know what they’re gonna say.

I don’t know how it’s gonna go. I don’t know how it’s gonna end. You can only, I can only outline so much that I have to actually write it, and then sometimes when I write it I go, oh, like that’s what’s gonna happen next. That’s where the character is gonna go. And then I write that. It’s very like. One brick at a time.

And yeah, I love that because when I’m drafting something, the whole day becomes, my whole day is around that I, everything I do, even when I’m not writing, I’m thinking about it. I’m observing people. I could get an idea in the grocery store. There’s so many things, like everything sort of serves its purpose of.

I really think that so much of good writing is letting your brain wander, because I can’t write my best if I’m sitting at the page for eight hours a day being like, okay, figure this out, figure this out. It’s like, no, I need to be, I need to be like, I, I need to not be thinking about it to then, yeah, something comes in for me and so, you know, I just make a note and then I get it and it, it’s happened every single time.

I mean. Radically content. When I was writing that best. I loved that experience. It was so fun. Every day. I had a rough outline for that because I sold it on a proposal to the publisher. But even still, the, the, the outline was essentially topics and I already loved those topics, so that wasn’t that hard.

But I would get ideas for the stories that would lead into those topics. The day of, you know, like as I would write something and then go to the next. And I think if I had. Specifically put in the stories, I probably would’ve forced it. And I, I think that’s sort of my magic is I, I won’t say that I’m the best at, at everything.

I’m not, but I think I’m really good at not seeming forced, because I don’t force, you know, like. I don’t force myself to post on Instagram every day. I don’t force myself to write certain things. I don’t force the, the outline. I, I really let things come to me and I think that’s always what you said really resonated when you were introing me.

Like I think that’s why it’s stays honest, because I’m not trying to be something, you know, forcing it to be something. Yeah.

Julie: What part of the writing process is the most joyful for you, and what part is the messiest

Jamie: the most joyful at this point, because I’ve now done it several times, is editing. It’s so nice to edit when I know the book is like there’s a draft.

I mean, granted, I’ve never had to do like a full rewrite, like knock on wood, but, which I’m sure might be really tough if I ever have to face that. But editing, editing really does something to me. It’s like those videos that you see that are really satisfying where they’re like whittling or like smoothing something out, you know?

Oh my god. I love this, like watching a cake being iced or something. You’re like, oh, this is my gosh, this, yes. You’re just like, I love this. That’s how editing feels to me. I’m like, oh, I get to like refine my language. I’m like, oh my God, I’ve used that word 15 times. Can someone do anything other than breathe?

Yes. Now I can have them do something other than breathe, you know? So it’s like, it’s so satisfying. Yeah. The me, the messiest. Is definitely drafting. Not so much because I am, have writer’s block, which I don’t, it’s, it’s the doubt, it’s the not knowing. Like I get to a certain point in a draft where I’m like, you know, halfway through and I’m like, is this good?

Does this suck? It’s like battling with that. Whereas when I’m editing, it’s already. I, it’s already complete in a sense. Now I just have to make it better. And so, yeah. But drafting, but I do find drafting really, really joyful. It just is kind of messy because my brain is messy while I’m doing it because you just never, you don’t know.

And I, I don’t like read as I go, so it’s just, I’m really of the mindset of like, just get it down on the page. Like even what I’m working on right now. I was really, I could tell that I was really stuck in a place that I was just writing and I was like, I don’t know if this is what this scene needs to be like.

It’s kind of a critical climax type of scene. But I eventually, I was like, just write it. Eventually you could change it if it’s not where it’s meant, meant to be, just write it. And so I just like wrote it messy, but that messiness. Like, I want it to be perfect right away and I want it to feel perfect and it’s like it’s not gonna get there.

Um, so that’s kind of when the things get a little tricky. But I mean, I have my tools now to kind of get over that and I can tell myself things that get me over that hump.

Julie: I think that a lot of people romanticize the publishing industry. I mean, there’s books on it. I mean, everyone thinks, oh, I’ve got a book in me.

I’ve got these great ideas. I mean, me, I’m over here being like, oh, it could be a children’s book author. I could totally do all these things. But I mean, it’s not exactly a Hallmark movie. What was your experience like finding an agent and then pitching your work?

Jamie: Ah. It’s very romanticized and it’s very misunderstood.

Especially now because I think maybe in like when we were all growing up, you know, as, as potentially some of these, there was a million book houses. Well, yeah, and it’s like. If you did get a book deal, it was a big deal because they were putting a lot of time and energy usually into it, and they were trying to break you out.

Whereas now we’re in this place of, you know, it’s like everyone’s the gig economy. So we’re all trying to, we all have to hype ourselves up and there’s like three books a year that get actual budget put behind it. And so that’s kind of like the demoralizing part, but getting an agent is. Yeah, like pitching is tough.

I’ve gone, I’ve had three agents, I’m now just signing with my fourth. So it’s, it’s tough to even like find the agent you love and you have to get out of the mentality of like, well, at least I have an agent. And it’s like, well, not, you don’t want, it’s like you don’t want just anyone. No, you don’t want just anyone and you if they don’t get you and they’re not, you know, working for you.

So that’s tough. And then publishing it is a lot less romantic than it looks like. I mean, the movies depicted as something, you know, it’s like life changing and all of this. For some people it is. Um, for a lot of us it’s like quiet and a lot of waiting and a lot of empty space and a lot of. Having to not get in your head about stuff.

And I, I think one of the hardest parts is, you know, now because everything is online and every moment of an author’s journey is depicted in the highlight reel, the comparison is it’s, it’s like, it’s really tough. I mean, I have had to give myself permission to be like, you know what? You can’t support every single author that exists.

Yeah. It’s still a marketplace. It’s like, it’s tough sometimes to watch when someone is at a different level of their career than you’re at. Um, and so I’ve had to protect myself because I don’t get anything out of watching them do get. You know, all these things. I, I, and in fact, it will demoralize me to the point where I won’t write.

So it’s like I just have to protect the writing. And really what it’s come down to is I will say that, you know, some people say like, oh, nothing changes when you get a publishing deal. I won’t necessarily say that because when I wrote my, when I wrote Charlie Quinn, let’s go. And that was officially under contract.

The first book I ever wrote under, well, I guess my, the first novel I ever wrote under contract, I wrote radically content under Contract, main Character, energy. I had to write it before I got a deal. But with Charlie Quinn, I got to write that under contract. And I will say for me, at the place that I’m in, I know some people, this actually gets in their head that it’s under contract, and so they.

If they have a harder time with it. Harder, I actually felt so much confidence and excitement that I was writing something that was actually gonna go to a publisher. You know, it wasn’t just be another thing that I was like, oh, is this gonna go anywhere? You know? Um, so I will say in that sense, there is, there is some nice feelings that go along with that.

I mean, I think, you know. Getting published is still such a huge achievement and I am so grateful for it. But it, there are some parts of it that, yeah, it kind of like hits you over the head. Like, so this wasn’t what you fought and it’s not giving you, it’s not like it gives. Like for that period of time, it gave me confidence, but it doesn’t gimme like endless confidence and I don’t feel like completely stable forever in this industry.

It’s, you know, you just gotta keep writing good things and you don’t kind of don’t know what’s gonna take off. Especially nowadays, like you don’t know which book is gonna be the breakout.

Julie: Yeah. How do you stay grounded in your voice while you’re navigating. Outside opinions while you’re writing. Oh, like, yeah.

Editors and agents and all the people who get input.

Jamie: Yeah. You know, the thing is though, I don’t, I feel like there’s a lot of like horror stories and I, I’m lucky that I haven’t had to deal with that because even the agents that I really, that didn’t work out, I mean. I wouldn’t say agents because I feel like I can push back on that.

But like editors, I’ve had very good editors that were like, we just wanna bring your vision to life, you know? Oh, wonderful. Don’t tell you what to do. And if you don’t like an edit that we make, like you can push back on it. You know? So I think that, and that maybe that’s different. Um, when someone. Is with a different editor or it’s a higher level, more investment from the publisher.

They might, you know, uh, have more input in the direction the book should go because they have marketing that they have, things like that. But for the most part, I really haven’t had to deal with that. That being said. You know, the reviews can get in your head. It can make you question yourself. I mean, no matter how many good reviews you get, the really critique reviews can definitely stick in your head.

I’ve just kind of, I’ve been able to metastasize some of them, like with main character energy, if there was critiques and if there was a pattern of critiques. I, I took that in and I said, okay. I get it. You know, I’m not, I’m not gonna throw it out as something, you know, just because, you know, I’m not gonna like say, oh, this was a bad thing or anything.

But I will look at that and I will kind of take it. You know, it’s okay. Like I don’t wanna be afraid of everything, you know? Yeah. And I wanna trust that I can still have my voice. And also, you know, I’m not creating in a vacuum. I’m not writing books just for myself, you know? That doesn’t mean that I’m gonna go in and like change every little thing.

But I have taken it in and said, huh, I wonder if this could be constructive to me and productive, uh, you know, while also maintaining, you know, uh, to me at this point, maintaining my voice isn’t really something that I’m too worried about because I feel like I’m like. A crotchety old man. Oh my God. You know, like I like that must

Julie: be why I relate to you so well.

Yeah. ’cause I always say I am like an 80-year-old man that wants to yell at a child to get off my lawn.

Jamie: For sure. I’m like these TikTok kids, like, oh my God, I’m, oh, the youths, the Gen Z. Like, I mean, I’m like, I am a little old school about certain things, you know? I’m like, I don’t wanna follow trends. I don’t wanna market my book like a trend.

I don’t wanna, but, you know, so I’m like two. I, I see it as a positive because eventually I think that’ll be like my signature. But you know, the, the, there is of course the temptation to always follow what everyone else is doing. And I’m like, I can’t do it. Yeah. I won’t do it. So that’s like my crotchet just comes in and I’m like, I refuse, I refuse.

I can’t do it like everyone else. Even when I try, I feel so icky and then I have to delete the pose. Like if I try to do a trend or something and what’s worse is even if I try to do those things, they don’t even work. So it’s like, oh yeah, mine always full

Julie: flap.

Jamie: Yeah. I’m like, I’m not even good at this, so I might as well just do whatever I wanna do and, you know, stick to like I’ve, I’ve.

Especially in the last couple of years when, since TikTok has taken off and I feel like everybody’s, there’s so much conformity happening and like, especially with ai, there’s like every, we’re all, a lot of people are gonna sound. Like each other, and there’s like a golden age of following the trends right now.

But there is definitely gonna be a backlash. And I’m like, I’m just gonna sit in my corner and I’m gonna stay focused because I cannot do this. I cannot follow every little thing. Like I, I can’t buy the cool shoes that everyone buys and, you know, then throw ’em out three months later. I can’t get any, I literally don’t own anything but tennis shoes.

It’s ridiculous. I don’t even, I don’t even look at anything anymore. What’s cool? I’m like, I just, I’m just black tie function. Black tennis is right. Here we go. Comfort over everything. I mean, I love, oh my God, over everything. Yes, I get that. I get it.

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Grab yours today@dallasgirlfriday.com before life throws a plot twist. Obviously like ideas can come from anywhere, but like writing a book doesn’t happen by accident. Do you have any rituals or systems that kind of help you get to the page even when it’s hard?

Jamie: Uh, it’s, it’s essentially like, it’s just creating my, my ritual of when I write every day and having the right mindset and reminding myself that. You know when on days when I’m unmotivated, I just remind myself at how bad I felt when I wasn’t writing. So it’s like, okay, well I gotta write. Yeah. You know, like I, as bad as I feel about whatever doubt is coming up, or fear or is this gonna make, it’s like nothing is as bad as how I felt every single day.

I wasn’t writing for like 20 years. Oh my gosh. You’re doing what you’re meant to do. Yeah. So I just kind of get myself back into the mindset because, you know, I, at the end of the day, that’s, that’s really what I’m doing it for. And you know, I just don’t like to break my own promises. And so it, it helps too to have like a container of time where it’s like nine to 11:00 AM That’s my writing time for the most part.

And I guard that with a pretty, uh, I mean, it’s, I don’t book, I mean, we book this at 11:00 AM because I don’t book anything before. Yeah. You know, and you know, unless I absolutely have to. And so that’s. Just having the container. I have. I will say that before I started doing that and before I started writing consistently, I would always say, oh, well, I have to wait for inspiration and this and that.

But once I started giving inspiration a container, I mean, what’s now listen to how wild this is. Okay. This is how wild it is when you give your inspiration a container. I was just in France for three weeks, right? And almost every single day. At around, yeah. Six, 7:00 PM there France time, I would get a sudden urge to write work on my book and I had already worked in the morning on it.

And so, ’cause I ki I kind of tried to keep my r my ritual ’cause I was in the middle of drafting something and I don’t like to eat, lose three weeks of momentum on a story. Like it has to keep, it has to keep going, otherwise people can feel the momentum. Like your energy that you put into the story, people can feel it.

So, oh yeah. I’ve read those books where parts of it

Julie: drag and you’re like, good. They just hate writing this part.

Jamie: Right? Like they got a little stuck or they took a break. Um, anyway, so, but every single night at like six to 7:00 PM like before we were gonna go to dinner or whatever we were doing, I would wanna write.

I, I realized it like about two weeks in. I was like, what is up with this? Like I, because I never write at that time at home, and I’m like, that’s my writing time at home. That’s nine. The time changed. I was like, oh my God, I have myself. So trained that like ideas would come to me at that time. Yeah. And I was like, this is unbelievable to me.

That’s awesome. Yeah. So I figured that out like back in 2018 when I started writing my newsletter every Friday. ’cause that’s how I started writing consistently, was I devoted Fridays. To my writing Friday mornings. I didn’t try to do every single day ’cause I knew I would get in my head Friday mornings. I wrote my newsletter and I made it a whole fun thing.

They were called Friday Letters. I’m sure you remember. Uh, yes.

Julie: Obviously I was on the list. Yeah. And anyone just tuning in somehow in the middle of a podcast. I am Jamie Stalker.

Jamie: Right?

Julie: She’s been

Jamie: on the list. She’s on the list, so she know. Um, so, uh, I. I remember about a month in to doing that every Friday I would show up and have ideas on that day and I was like, oh, this is what people mean when they say like.

Do it consistently because it, it’s, you don’t have to wait for the inspiration. It’ll find you when you’re ready, when you’ve given it space to be found. And I was like, uh, got it. Okay, well now I can’t unknow that. You know, like got new excuse now.

Julie: One of, one of my favorite things about your work is that it’s very raw, but it’s never self-indulgent.

And you had a big, uh, period of time where you would post very consistently, just kind of short form things on Instagram, and there were very branded people would share ’em, and I would instantly be like, oh yeah, that’s Jamie’s, I mean. Now that that’s not quite what you’re doing, has your relationship with your audience changed what you share

Jamie: or, yeah, for sure.

I mean, that happened really organically. I was just, every single day, I think because I was, I was doing so much learning on myself, like I was doing so much self-growth work every single day I felt like I had something to share, whereas now. I had always wanted to write novels, and now that I am writing novels, it’s like all my, a lot of my insight goes into that instead of, you know, I’m, I like, I don’t know how people are so prolific to the point where, and, and maybe they’re not, I don’t know, but like, I can’t just have a million ideas every single day if I’m gonna stay true to myself.

Yeah. Um, so I do think that. My audience has changed. Uh, something that I wish that I could really get through to people is if you loved those posts, like, you’ll love my novels. You know, like it’s not agreed. You know, like I’m like, I put all those posts. It’s not like it’s different. I mean it to an extent.

The medium is different, but it’s like. All of my work is always gonna have that insight and that wisdom, and it’s always gonna have some sort of like lesson learned and moral. And I, I’m not a, a writing just for entertainment type of writer. Like I, I go deeper than I think. Even people want, you know, I’m more earnest and sensitive, you know, so all of that work and all of those lessons I put into my books no matter what.

And I think that’s some people that has surprised them where they’re like, oh, I didn’t know that this was gonna be so like, you know, a self-reflective journey in a novel. And I’m like, yeah. It’s like, I can’t, I’m still that person. I just, you know, you get to a point something that’s been very hard for me, but I have to do it.

I mean, you, you explaining all the things that I’ve done, it, it, it sort of triggers a little bit of like, oh God, I’ve done so many things, but I’ve had to learn how to move on from things. Yeah. Because I think. I remember one of my, one of my friends had been friends with Brene Brown, and she had told me, she’s like, Brene Brown.

I cannot talk about vulnerability anymore. You know, like That makes sense. Yeah. And like she’s tapped out of talking about vulnerability and I don’t think that that’s like gossip of any sort. It’s like kind of, she’s probably said it herself, you know, where like you can’t keep, like people sometimes want the same exact thing from you for like 10 years.

It’s. A person is a person, they’re not actually like an AI bot that can just keep repackaging and reproducing. You know, like for me, if I’m not in a period of self-growth and I’m not. Actively, you know, doing a lot of that personal work. I’m just living my life enjoying the growth that I am, got myself to, I don’t know, I don’t have much to share on that front.

You know, there’s only so much I can keep mining my personal life. When it gets to a point where you’re like, I’m keeping myself from like, being kind of joyful and happy so I can keep writing. Yeah. For writing about the struggle, you know, it’s like, like, ’cause for years, for years I had self-doubt. Yeah.

And for years I was inconsistent and that shaped so much of my work and so much of what I wrote about that in my coming out of it resonated with people. But I mean, you can’t have self-doubt forever. Like you can’t have, it’s not sustainable syndrome forever, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean. You could, but not if you’re the type of person who actually wants to grow, go to that next level.

Like what’s after self-doubt, you know? Yeah. Like there is something, there’s another layer, but I don’t wanna stay in that. And I also think sometimes I’m, I right now, especially, I’m in a period where there’s a lot of things happening that I cannot even talk about. You know, and, and there’s, it’s exciting things that I wanna share and, you know, but I’m like focused on doing that work instead of doing the inner work that allows me to do the work because I’m like, I’ve, I’ve done it.

I have, I mean. People who are potentially newer to my work or found me in 2021 when, when a lot of of my stuff was like popping off. And that was also a time where people were online. It was a pandemic, you know? Yeah. So they need a lot of inspiration and insight and I’m, I’m glad for that. You know, I felt like I was a pillar for a lot of people, but I, that was the culmination of me doing self-work since I was 20 years old.

You know, like that was 15 years of me having wisdom. You know, I started this work so early on in my life because I just was not, I was not a happy teenager and I wanted to be free, you know, like I wanted to be confident and I wanted to be free. I was reading like, you know, asking it is given by Abraham Hicks when I was in college in my dorm room when everyone else was like drinking.

I was drinking too, but I was also reading that like, you know, I was like a weird girl. I was not reading the same thing people were, people will be like, did you watch, you didn’t watch Gossip Girl with oc, and I’m thinking like I was reading like weird stuff. Now is like mainstream, but like I was at Barnes and Noble reading astrology books when everyone else was like, twilight, you know?

And so, yeah, I, I just, basically what I’m saying is by the time I was able to release all that wisdom, it, it did hit a point where I was like, I got nothing left because now I just wanna do my work. I wanna do my art, I wanna, I, I want people to. See, you know, instead of know me as the girl who writes Instagram posts, you know, I, I can write full bodies of work like legacy work.

Yeah. You know? And now that I know I can do that, I don’t wanna just be known and just do, and I don’t wanna downplay that because I do think I was putting out incredibly, you know. Steep work in that small, you know, cons, small posts,

Julie: but it just doesn’t. Yeah. But it was something that was, it’s a part of you.

It’s a little part of you. Yeah. You’re so much bigger than that. Your, your talent has a much wider birth than that.

Jamie: Right. And like even when radically content came out, people thought that was gonna be a book of my posts. And I was like, no, it’s a book. Is a book. You know? And I, because I, and, and actually that was a real moment of you have to be kind of careful with how you build your audience and how you teach your audience to see you.

Because I didn’t want people to just see me as this person that writes a hundred word posts and can’t. Write books because I always wanted to write books. You know, I didn’t want, I, I, so I had to do some tough thinking on that because it’s, it is always very hard to let go of something that is working and, you know, is, is getting a lot of attention.

But it also was, you know, lights don’t equate to. You know, it, it depends on what your ultimate goals are and intentions and your vision and, and getting likes and going viral was, was not really leading me to where, uh, it wasn’t putting me in the rooms that I needed to be in, is what I’ll say. Hmm. The thing that put right now, the thing that put me in the rooms that I need to be in, it was sitting down and writing 75,000 words.

Instead of a hundred words and then I feel like I’m done for the day.

Julie: What would you say to somebody listening who wants to write a book, but feels like everyone else has already said it better?

Jamie: Uh, I mean, yeah, it’s the hardest thing. You have to take out everyone else, and you have to say, but do I wanna say it my way?

And if you do, then you owe it to yourself. I mean, if it’s a calling and it is calling to you, I, I literally was just thinking about this the other day. If it’s a calling and it’s calling to you, it’s like a betrayal of yourself to ignore it. So what you have to do is you have to give it, you have to give it some consistent action because it’s a way of loving yourself.

You know, like to me, that is the ultimate act of self love is. Saying, this calls to me. I feel that I need to do this. Even though everybody’s always, there’s always, there’s enough of everything all the time. But still, I gotta, I gotta make my mark and I gotta do it for me, and then I’ll deal with the rest later.

You know, like you, you, especially the first thing you write, it’s for you. And then you, and then you’ll see, and then you see, and then it, it’s the, it’s that journey of you learn a lot about yourself. You can’t learn a lot about yourself by having all your ideas in your head. You don’t learn anything about yourself, except I just don’t act on my ideas.

Yeah. You learn everything about yourself. When you take your ideas out of your head and you, and you actually do them, and it’s, it’ll be, it’s rewarding no matter what happens.

Julie: All right, Jamie, please tell everyone where they can find you online and in stores.

Jamie: I, my website is jamie verin.com so you can find all my things there.

And I’m on Instagram and Facebook. I mean, I’m most active on Instagram. Probably don’t find me on TikTok ’cause I don’t know. I don’t really use it. That and, um, you can find me in stores. I mean, I’m in Barnes and Noble, I’m in bookstores. I am online on all the bookstores. So yeah, I mean, please buy Charlie Quin.

Let’s go. If you like self-growth journeys, if you wanna be inspired and you also like. Love, fun journeys, heartwarming journeys. I mean, you gotta, you gotta get Charlie Quinn because she takes you on such a fun adventure of, you know, this. This woman who has resigned to stay in the safe bubble of her workaholism just blossom.

And come out of her shell and, you know, have fun and embrace joy and all the things that come with that. It’s, uh, I loved writing this book so much. Like it was truly such a fun, it made me a more adventurous person, honestly.

Julie: I love that. We’ll, it will have come out by the time this episode airs, but it has not come out yet when we are recording it.

So I think it’s probably pretty likely that I will have already received my copy and read it, uh, by the time this airs. So. I will be sure to talk about it, and we’ll have all the links to all of Jamie’s works in our show notes. All right, everyone, we are going to close things out with a little literary love.

Jamie, I wanna hear from you, the books that shaped you as a writer, the ones that just cracked you open, gave you permission, or just made you fall in love with words in the first place.

Jamie: Okay, so the novel that made me wanna write novels and think, oh. Wait novels can be like this. And I felt seen that I could, I didn’t wanna write this exact one, but I wanted to write something.

This uplifting and lesson learned beauty was, uh, what Alice forgot by Leanne Moriarty. She also wrote, did you read that one? I love

Julie: that book. I loved, oh my God, that book.

Jamie: It’s so underrated. Like, of course I liked Big, big Little Lies. You know, she’s the author of so many amazing books.

Julie: It’s so, it’s amazing.

She’s, uh, her books that have made her famous, I feel like are not her best work. And that’s not to downplay the, that work. I’m just saying like, as far as like, whoa, she could write that. Like, it’s what Alice forgot, like it’s, oh. Stunning. What

Jamie: Alice forgot is, I, I will, anyone who ever asks me for a book recommendation, I’m like, read what Alice forgot because it is so good.

It’s so profound. It’s so beautifully done. It, it was like the light bulb. I still remember where I was when I read the whole thing. Like I remember the day, oh my gosh, I was in Palm Springs at a hotel by myself, like on a little solo retreat and I read that and I was like. I gotta write novels. Like I had always wanted to write novels, but that was like, okay, I have to write novels.

And then it took me five years to write, then to write it. But. To, to actually do it. And then this one’s obvious and I, I, I hate to say it ’cause it’s so cliche, but it really did change everything for me was Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert.

Julie: Um, I mean, it’s a

Jamie: good book. It’s cliche

Julie: for a reason. So many people have read it for a reason.

Right. And it’s

Jamie: only, it’s only cliche that you, that you’re like a writer that’s read it. It’s, it’s the actual book isn’t cliche. It’s beautiful. No, no, no, no, no. Like I’m saying to say that that book like changed you. Exactly. Exactly. Like that’s the book. The book is fantastic. The book is fantastic, and it really inspired me in the sense that the one thing that just stuck with me the most was you’ve been given like a divine.

Order to write an idea and that has given my ideas such a, such more weight and urgency than they ever did before because I never used to feel as like, you know, when I got an idea now I’m like, okay, universe. I will go after it, you know, I’m like, yeah, you have chosen me. You know. Um, and then the other one that really made sense to me and got me thinking the, the most about it, it empowered me, I will say, is Save the Cat writes a novel because it gave a lot of structure to, it’s, it’s basically an adapted, it’s an outlining.

Kind of like beat by beat outlining tool that is based off of how popular movies are. So it has to have certain moments that you have to hit. Mm-hmm. And that really helped me structure. And even now, like when I’m in meetings with this thing that I can’t talk about, they use those terms. So it’s actually years later, I’m like, oh yeah, we need an always loss moment.

You know? Yeah. Like I know what that means because of Save the Cat writes a novel. So that was really cool. That’s

Julie: awesome. Yeah. All right. Jamie’s picks are gonna also be linked in the show notes, as will mine. Uh, now I am not a writer, but I’m a lifelong voracious reader with some very formative literary moments.

So these are my five books that have shaped me as a reader. Uh, number one is the Phantom Toll Booth by Norton Chester, because I was a kid who. Loved rules and still wanted adventure. And this book made imagination feel like its own kind of system. Uh, number two is the Westing Game by Ellen Raskin. It wasn’t just a mystery, uh, for me, it felt like a challenge, like the author was trusting me to figure it out alongside the characters.

It was a, a mystery, a game, a puzzle, and characters with like real. Quirks and flaws, and I just, I wanted to live inside that book. Uh, number three is Eleanor Oliphant is completely fine by Gale Honeyman. Um, the slow unraveling of somebody who is not okay, but so deeply wants to be. I. Sobbed. I reread it. I rooted for her like she was my best friend.

Uh, number four is the Happy Ever After Playlist by Abby Jimenez. Um, I, she’s a must read author for me, but I had never read Love that that felt. Like my own love story before, like a character that had put into words how deeply and complexly I love my now husband. Um, it was messy and romantic and very healing and full of hope.

Uh, and then number five, not just because she’s here and not just because I’m a giant ass kisser, but radically content. Um, it, this book really truly did. I, I think everyone should read it. It really truly recalibrated my inner compass. It gave me a language for the kind of life that I was trying to build and permission to stop striving for something that I.

Was building and didn’t even realize I didn’t want. If you loved this conversation with the Jamie, don’t forget to rate and review the podcast. It helps more people find these systems for everything. You can find me on Instagram at Dallas Girl Friday, and if this episode gave you the itch to write something real crack open that notes app, baby, you got a story in you.

Until next time, write what’s true. Even if it’s messy.