Hot tip for maintaining adult friendships: Move to different cities, never ask who texted last, and consider a blood pact. That’s more or less the system Lauren and I have followed for 17 years—and it’s worked. Today, we’re breaking down how.
In this episode of The System for Everything, I’m joined by one of my longest-standing friendships: Lauren Smart. She’s a journalism professor, an arts writer, and someone who’s had a front-row seat to my entire adult life. We became friends at 22, and somehow—through new jobs, new cities, a lot of karaoke, and one of us (me) developing a codependent relationship with Google Calendar—we’ve stayed maintained a friendship for nearly two decades.
The Friendship Origin Story: Karaoke Bars and Teenage Chaos
We met in community college—me barely 21, Lauren definitely not—but bonded instantly. She remembers me talking a bouncer into letting us into a karaoke bar (allegedly), and I remember thinking, I need to be around this person always. It was the kind of early-20s connection that felt both electric and inevitable.
We were both in our “figure-it-out” eras—late nights, mismatched apartments, big feelings about everything. Over time, our lives diverged. She went to grad school in Syracuse. I started a career and eventually a family. But the friendship remained.
Friendship Isn’t Always 50/50—And That’s Okay
If you’re looking for a rulebook on adult friendships, here’s mine: It’s not about being perfectly balanced. It’s about being present in the ways you can.
Sometimes Lauren is the one to get me out of the house. She’s the Deputy of Fun, always scouting new karaoke bars or late-night waffle joints. I, on the other hand, am the endurance texter—I send the “hi!” every few months. No guilt. No scorekeeping.
We both agree: friendship doesn’t have to look the same in every season. And it definitely doesn’t have to be a calendar appointment to be real.
The Friendship Triangle: Forever, Seasonal, Transactional
Lauren dropped some Aristotelian wisdom that’s stuck with me: there are three types of friends.
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Forever Friends: These are your people. The ones who walk with you through breakups, births, burnouts. They know your weird habits and still like you.
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Seasonal Friends: Party friends. New job friends. People who make that chapter brighter but don’t stick around for the sequel.
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Transactional Friends: Coworkers or convenience-based bonds. They’re fun, they serve a purpose, and that’s okay.
Knowing which category a friendship fits into helps you love people better—and let go with less guilt when it’s time.
Communication ≠ Constant Contact
We touched on a truth that’s rarely said out loud: low-maintenance friendship is real—but it still requires intention.
Sending a meme is communication.
A “thinking of you” text is communication.
Screaming about a Bravo plot twist in DMs? Definitely communication.
You don’t need to call every week. You just need to remind each other that you’re still there. Still cheering. Still in it.
Show Up When It Counts
Lauren was at my wedding. She’s met my kid. She knows the versions of me that only long-haul friends get to see. And I know the same about her.
That’s why we can go months without talking, then pick up mid-conversation—like we’re still 22 and sneaking into karaoke bars.
Friendship isn’t about proximity. It’s about presence—especially during the big stuff.
Let People Change
One of the most important lessons we’ve learned is this: people grow, and your friendship has to grow too.
Lauren and I don’t share a lot of surface-level interests. She’s athletic, outdoorsy, and genuinely likes museums. I’m into indoor time, television, and Bravo lore. But our shared values of humor, curiosity, and loyalty are what anchor us.
Letting your friends change without needing them to match your exact lifestyle is friendship at its most generous.
Who’s Carrying the Friendship?
Sometimes you are. Sometimes they are. Sometimes neither of you is doing a great job and that’s okay too. You just have to decide whether the friendship is still worth picking back up.
Lauren and I never had a big friendship fight. We’ve had seasons where life pulled us in different directions, but we always circled back.
Because some people are just your people. And even if you’re wildly different adults than the ones who met as teens, the friendship still fits.
Review the Transcript
Julie: Hot tip. To maintain adult friendships simply form a blood pact at age 20. Always agree to live in different cities and never ever bring up who texted last. Welcome back to the System for Everything podcast, the show where we unpack the routines, rhythms, and relationships that keep real life from completely falling apart.
Today’s episode is extra special because my guest is Lawrence Smart journalism professor at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, and an arts writer. And critic in her past life in Dallas, she ran the arts section for the Alt weekly newspaper. Founded a feminist literary arts festival and managed a high school journalism program at the public library.
These days when she’s not teaching, she’s working on a novel walking her pups under palm trees or going for a run on the beach. She is also somebody who has had a. Front row seat to my entire adult life. We became friends when I was 22 years old, and we have somehow managed to stay close through new cities, new jobs, and one of us.
Me developing a codependency to Google Calendar.
Lauren: Welcome, Lauren. I’m so excited you’re here. Hi. I am so happy. I’m so happy you’re doing this. This is so cool. I know
Julie: it’s gonna be fun. Okay, so we’re gonna start with the system reboot. So as somebody who was on a trivia team with me that we dubbed Dream Team, what is the strangest and most niche category that you think you would dominate in?
Lauren: Oh my gosh. Um, okay. Well the two, there’s like two and one is I, during the pandemic, started watching Arrested Development to fall asleep at night. And now it’s like, if I can’t fall asleep, I’ll just turn it on. I probably can quote every episode. So Arrested Development trivia. Love that. Um, which I’ve never, I’m just kind of surprised I’ve never seen
Julie: Yeah.
That
Lauren: exist
Julie: anywhere. ‘
Lauren: cause I feel
Julie: like
Lauren: I’m not
Julie: the only one. I won single-handedly third place. At a Brooklyn nine nine trivia. So it’s gotta Right. Exist somewhere.
Lauren: Yeah. You’d think, and I’d feel like I’m not the only fan girl of that show.
Julie: Yeah. I would absolutely go to that with you and crush it. Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah. Or also I’ve decided recently, this is super niche and you’ll appreciate this, like 2007 to 2020 Dallas Theater gossip.
Julie: Oh,
Lauren: nice. Yeah. Just like who’s doing what With who? Where, who’s doing who? Yeah. Who’s doing who, where, when,
Julie: who knew about it?
Lauren: Who didn’t?
Julie: Oh my God. A hundred percent. Okay. What is a pop culture moment that lives rent free in your head?
Lauren: I, okay, so this is like, that’s a hard one. I mean, it’s hard not to like the, the slap. I think about the slap all the time. Yes. The Oscar slap. Um, mostly ’cause I think about like. How few people understood what was happening in the moment, including us. I didn’t, on the other side of the TV and how long we debated it after and like ultimately it was like men being men doing stupid men stuff.
We all tried to turn it into like something way more than it was and it was just like
Julie: not, it was just did getting mad, but I think about that all the time. Okay. What is something you always intend to do but you never actually get around to?
Lauren: Um, IU okay, so my old answer to this question used to be I always wanted to be the kind of person who went to the farmer’s market every weekend.
Julie: Ooh.
Lauren: Yeah. And since I moved to LA I have made that true. So I’m like, okay, good. We’re setting intentions and we’re following through on them. But 90 answer to that is bake, which is you. I have all these lemons behind me ’cause I bought them at said Farmer’s Market to turn into a Lemon Tart. Okay. Okay. It’s now been five days and the Lemon Tart doesn’t exist, so
Julie: I believe in you.
I feel like you’ve still got a couple more days until, yeah. Those lemons are maybe not, they’re still
Lauren: good. They’re still good. They’re still good. Yeah.
Julie: All right folks. You’ve met the personality. Now meet the powerhouse. Here’s my conversation with Lauren Smart on the system for maintaining adult friendships.
What does it actually take to stay close when life gets busy, messy, and full of change? Let’s get into it. Okay. We have to start with our friendship origin story. So do you remember how we met? Like what was your first impression of me?
Lauren: Oh my God, that’s such a good que that This is also something I’ve been trying to remember in specific detail.
I am certain it was in the halls of tia, which is what we called, it had to be the community college we both attended. Yeah. It had to be there, but it’s also possible. No, I think that’s, but my first memory of you, like that’s first. This is not how we met because. We immediately became friends. I know that for a fact.
Like I think the words you said when you met me were, well, what it is that they used to say. I used to say something like, um, I’m gonna attack you with my friendship, but it wasn’t, oh yeah,
Julie: I’ll assault you with my friendship. Assault.
Lauren: I’m gonna assault you with my
Julie: friendship.
Lauren: And I think we met, we met through Jake.
Julie: Oh, sure. Um,
Lauren: because I had done community college with Jake Nelson. And you were friends with him at Quad C. And then I was there, and then we for sure met through Jake, but then. Uh, my first memory of you is, remember when we snuck? I was not 21 and you might not have been 21.
Julie: I’m pretty sure you were 17 when we first met.
I a
Lauren: hundred
Julie: percent
Lauren: was. Yeah, I a hundred percent was, but I remember somehow you talking bouncer. I’m sorry. Actually,
Julie: lemme say you were allegedly 17. In case any police are listening.
Lauren: That’s right. The statute of limitations of sneaking into bars has gotta be, I mean, it’s gotta be over. Like we’re I It was, that was seven.
That was 17 years ago. Yeah. So I’ve known you half my life. I remember going to a karaoke bar in the middle of nowhere, Dallas or Addison. Yeah. And you convincing the bouncer to let us in and I don’t know how you did it because I did not have a fake id. I have always looked old for my age, but I didn’t look that old.
And again, I don’t think you were maybe even like maybe you had just turned 21.
Julie: Yeah, I was probably like just 21
Lauren: and I remember that. That’s my first like specific Julie. Oh my gosh. Julie Painter at the time. Memory of you. Yeah. Is going to the karaoke bar and being like, how did she, because I was like, should we be doing this?
And you were like, no, it’s fine. And what? It’s fine. Watch this.
Julie: Okay. So what season of life were we both in when we became friends? You had just graduated high school Uhhuh. I was in college and I would just say we were both in our, just f around eras and I, I was new to it. Yeah, you were new to it. I was.
Hardened in it.
Lauren: I’m still
Julie: in that era, so I dunno. I never, I never, uh, grew up Julie. That is false. You’ve been mature since the day I met you.
Lauren: Yeah. You were, you were the most fun. You were just like, I remember meeting you and being like, this is the most fun person I’ve ever met. Oh my gosh, that’s so nice.
I’m gonna be around her all the time. You also have been like. Uh, and I know this podcast is not supposed to be me telling you how awesome you are. I don’t think, but I’m going to. No,
Julie: no. It is. That’s the only reason I did this. Okay.
Lauren: You, you also, I remember like it was such a meeting you and you were so welcoming.
You were like, I’m gonna be friends. You like, you were like, I’m made friends with everyone and all my friends are gonna be friends with each other. Which I was like, I love friendship
Julie: matchmaking. The rule is just always that you can’t like each other more than you like me.
Lauren: Totally. Which again, you’re you, so that was gonna be impossible.
But I just thought that was the coolest thing. ’cause you come out of high school where things, at least my experience was like, things were fairly competitive and as we know, I only went to high school for a couple years. So, but like meeting a woman who like was so excited for not just to meet new people but to like, for them all to get along and like each other, you threw the best parties.
Um. I was at the where allegedly everyone was of age. Allegedly.
Julie: Allegedly. Okay. So let’s walk through some of like the eras of our friendships. Oh my gosh. We Quad C era into, I’d say then you went to SMU and then. And we stayed like Park, park era. Right. We were still hanging out
Lauren: when I was at SMU, like I was at ze.
Julie: Oh yeah, yeah. No, all the time.
Lauren: Like we never, that didn’t, that was like, ’cause I feel like a lot of times when you think about friendships, it’s like there are definitely moments in our friendship where we. Like got further apart. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Due to various relationships or personal thing, like where we lived and et cetera, where we lived.
Um, but like when I was at smu, you would come to my apartment all the time. Yeah. That was a great
Julie: apartment. And you like were randomly your sister was roommates with like a girl I’d gone to high school with like it was. So like such a small fun world. But then you went to SMU and then were you at the park or then you went to grad school?
Lauren: I went to grad school immediately after college. Okay. But only for, I was only gone for a Y like a year and, and some change.
Julie: Okay. So you were in Syracuse and then you were at the park where you met one of our best friends. And introduce her to me, Annie. Yeah. We love our Annie.
Lauren: Again, this is like so nice about you.
It’s like, it was always like the exchange of like, like you and there have been seasons where you and Annie were closer than I was with Annie and I was never like, oh, how is this happening? It was always like, cool. That’s the best. This is the best. Yeah. Yes. With Park. And what were you doing while I was at the park?
You were at a a c.
Julie: Yeah, I was with Maps.
Lauren: Yeah.
Julie: Yeah. I was with MA for a decade, like while I was wedding planning. Yeah. For people that don’t know, that was my former life.
Lauren: Um, you were like hooking it up, like letting us sit in the suites.
Julie: Yeah. Oh, I had the best hookup on tickets. People were so sad when I left that job.
They were very, very sad.
Lauren: It was, it was sad. You, I think you sent me to a Stevie Nicks concert. I’m pretty sure at some point probably.
Julie: Yeah, ’cause ’cause I would always give free tickets to stuff and all the concerts and hockey games and basketball games and stuff there. And I don’t want to do any of that stuff and, and that is something I find.
The most interesting like about our friendship and why I specifically wanted you for the, like I knew that this was a topic I wanted to talk about and I knew, I was like immediately like I want it to be Lauren because not only have we had all these different like phases and lived in different places and things like that and still been friends, like, yeah, I can say that about like a number of people, but also.
You and I are so very opposite. I mean, you’re athletic, you’re outdoorsy, or. Outsidey rather. Yeah. I don’t know that you’re gonna go camping, but like, you know, you’re in a run club and you’re very fit and you love to go, like, just like do things and be active. And I’m like, have you heard of television? And like, you were always, I, uh, I called you a while.
I think my, my do, my deputy of fun because I always felt like, like, okay. I am in a rut, like I need to get out of my house. I need to actually leave my home. Like, what is Lauren Smart doing? Like let’s text Lauren Smart. And it would always be like a new fun bar or karaoke or something. And it would like, you know, I am not a person who can do that all the time.
You thrive on that. I would die on that and, but you always would like get me out of my house. And it was just the most fun.
Lauren: That’s the best text to get from you too, is like, okay, I, I need to leave the house. What are you doing tonight? And I’m like, and we’re gonna start here, and then we’re going to go here, and then we’re gonna place.
And I’m like, wait place. I’m gonna come, come to that middle. I’m gonna come to the middle thing.
Julie: I’ll, I’ll stop by the middle one. Yeah.
Lauren: Uh, is the middle one’s a karaoke bar? Even better. Perfect.
Julie: Perfect. See you for two tequila shots. Exactly. Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah. You also, like, my favorite thing about Julie is like, you, you, like, you will announce, you’ll have one drink and you’re like, that’s it.
You got me drunk. I’m like, Julie, what are you talking? But it’s true too. It’s like I always been,
Julie: even when I was a huge drinker, like in my twenties when I was a massive drinker, I was always still a lightweight, like it takes me about half a drink or one shot. To get there and then I basically just stay at that level and I’m not gonna like cry or yell at anyone or something.
Like what I am gonna do probably is like trap you in a corner for like 15 minutes and tell you everything I like about you, which people like. YI think it that, it’s weird that I do that, but people do enjoy it. I
Lauren: mean, yeah, there’s a whole like, uh, internet thing of like, oh, the girls you meet in the bathroom, you know?
Oh my God. The ring. That’s me. The, the, but you’re that like in all your friendships, you’re like, Uhhuh. Nope. Mm-hmm. I’m gonna follow you into that other room. Bathroom. Sure. Bedroom. Sure. Get in here. Great. We’re talking about how much I like you.
Julie: Oh my God, that’s absolutely it. I think. Uh, one of the biggest things I love about our friendship is we’re both just, and not just this way in our own friendship, but in our friendship, other people’s we’re very much about kind of meeting friends where they are.
Yeah. Like in their life. And I think a lot of times, you know, people say like, friendships are so hard, and my mom is always like shocked that I’ll be like, oh, I talked to so and so. And she’ll be like, oh, Mike, when did you call the bullet? And I’m like, no, I. Like DM them on Instagram. Like, you know, friendship in your thirties looks like less of a hungover brunch and more of like sending memes while you’re folding laundry.
And I think that there’s something really special about that. Like, yes, it’s different. Yes, friendship has evolved, but like if I send you a meme, like I was obviously thinking about you, I want you to know that I have thought about you with this thing so. I guess my question is like, adult friendships aren’t always 50 50, so how do you know when it’s your turn to kind of carry the friendship?
Lauren: I, I feel I’ll say this. I think that in terms of sustaining our friendship, you have the, like, I’m the sprinter, you’re the endurance athlete. Like,
Julie: ooh, what, like a great analogy. You’re looking
Lauren: like, you’ll like send the text, it’ll have been a couple months.
Julie: Mm-hmm. And
Lauren: you’ll send the text that’s like, mm-hmm.
Okay. Wait. What the heck is Lauren up to? I gotta, I gotta just say hi and let her know I’m still remember me, your friend, Julie. Uh, we’re still, especially now that we don’t live in the same city, it’s like, it’s not as easy as like, Hey, what are you doing Friday night? Let’s have game night.
Julie: Yeah. You know,
Lauren: it’s much more like,
Julie: which we dominate at, by the way.
Lauren: Oh yeah. Okay. Well, it’s like, unless we’re playing against each other and then it’s like, what is happening? No, we gotta be on the same team, always on the same team. Uh, it’s, no one else likes it but us. But yeah, who cares? Who cares? But I think like you are so good and you see, I see this in all your other friendships too.
Like you do have lots of friends you’ve had since we’ve known each other. Like, you do stay, and that’s not as true for me. And like you probably, there’s like two or three people that I’ve known. As long as you are close to, as long as I’ve known you and, and been close to and like our friendship is like, we’ve been really close at periods and like mm-hmm.
Less close and you’ve gotten married and have a child and like it’s a totally, you know, our new very different. Yeah. Um, but I think also the thing that’s true for us is like we both just still really like each other and are, you will always be my friend. It’s like not, it’s a non-negotiable of like,
Julie: yeah.
Lauren: We, it, we could fight and we would have have to find a way through it. It’s not like I’m gonna ever not have you in her life.
Julie: Although I don’t think we’ve
Lauren: ever had a real
Julie: fight. I don’t, I don’t think so. I don’t think we have. Yeah. I
Lauren: also don’t think we’ve ever done anything but like laugh when we’re together.
Julie: Yeah. And I’m very much like when I feel like a fight might come with a friendship and stuff, I’m very, I very much like, I try my best to like squash it and get around it and see. Kind of get to the root of it and see what the heck is going on. ’cause I’m that person that’s not ever gonna shy away from anything like that.
Lauren: Yeah. I’ll always be that person, person. Whereas
Julie: like
Lauren: I fought with some of our mutual friends. Mm-hmm. And you, you have like done, you’re so good. You’re just very good at being like, I will always love this person. I. Full stop, you know? And mm-hmm. That does not have to be how everyone feels about that person.
Yeah. You know, I just think you’re really good at, like you, once you’ve picked your people, you’re loyal, but you’re not, you don’t do that loyalty thing where you’re like, you could never do anything wrong. It’s like, no, if you do something wrong or it pisses me off, you’ll talk to people about it. Oh,
Julie: a hundred percent.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Lauren: But you send the text,
Julie: how do you, I will give you credit. You send the text every couple of months that I’m like, send the text, people send the text, and sometimes it’s just like, hi. With an exclamation mark. What’s up? It’s not like, you know, something long drawn out, like, you know, oh, I miss you and I’m so sad that we don’t talk anymore.
Right. And it’s, you know, it’s not this big dramatic thing. It just, it doesn’t always have to be. And I think that maybe sometimes people get caught up in, especially like when you meet in college, when you meet in those early twenties, you. Expect that you’re always gonna be that close. You expect that things will always be like that.
And people don’t always live next door to you. People don’t always come over to your house every other night for, you know, a party or a drink. It’s just, that’s not feasible. And I think that a lot of people have maybe a hard time kind of walking what adult friendship looks like.
Lauren: Then I, and I think, like, I’ve been thinking about this a lot because, you know, I moved to a new city almost three years ago and I’ve had.
Friendships I made at the beginning of the three years that stuck and some that didn’t. And some of it, I also think you have to like understand that life works in seasons and it’s not Yes. You don’t want things to stay exactly the same. So why would your friendships stay exactly the same? Yeah. You know, like things are going, you have to let people grow and change.
Mm-hmm. And sometimes that means they move away from you for a little while. Maybe they come back, maybe they don’t. Yeah. Um, but. But I think also we’ve done a good job of integrating enough of our lives. Yes. Like you are friends with my parents who don’t live that far away from you. Oh God. I love your parents.
And we have, you know, your, you’ve become such good friends with Annie. Now she’s left us and like, you know, it’s like our lives are stupid
Julie: Connecticut.
Lauren: Yeah. How
Julie: dare she? I text her at least once a week to move back. She’s not biting it so far. No, it’s not happening.
Lauren: And, and I, I don’t know. I, I do, I just think it’s like you and I have given each other space too, which Yes.
Julie: Is so necessary. Hundred necessary. A hundred percent. So what does, would you say good communication looks like in a friendship to you? And that may not be what it looks like to everyone, but what does it look like to you?
Lauren: I feel like the, the one thing that has always been true for me, and I, I know I talked to other people that feel this way, but for me it’s like I, the minute someone.
N needs, I, I would love to carry people through hard spaces. This is not saying friendship doesn’t require that you show up for each other, but when a day-to-day friendship becomes a burden Oh. Or, or, or on a, or also, um, they hold, they hold you accountable for things that you didn’t ask them to, or they, like, you know, ask more of you than you’ve ever sort of.
Agreed upon. Yeah, and I guess, I guess I’m talking about codependency on some level, but um, I really think like letting people know you really like them and wanna be their friend, important. Letting pe, making people, turning people into someone you need someone from, especially early on. Um, and I mean, needs, need, need a Friday night hang, need
Julie: a text message, checking in on X, Y, Z thing.
And I think there’s also nothing wrong with having those types of friendships in certain seasons. Like there are people in my life that were my party friends. Like I can look back on some of the most fun times in my life. And those people were always there and. I know that if I saw them on the street right now, we’re not gonna have a real conversation.
Like it might, I might be like, excited to see you for a second, but we’re not like, I don’t care to tell you about my child, you know? Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah, there’s like, not to be this nerd person, but there’s Aristot. No, I love it. Aristotle, it was either Aristotle or Aquinas, so forgive me. Um, ancient philosopher. Um, but it’s, there’s like three kinds of friendships that you’ll have in your life and it’s like you’re forever friends and you won’t have very many of them.
They’re the people like us that you walk through. Life with that. You, um, they know intimate details of your life. Okay. They know the things that like, have broken your heart and, and brought you joy and and et cetera. And then there’s people who are there for a season. Um, and you have to like accept them when they show up and let them go when they leave.
Mm-hmm. And then there are trans, there just are transactional friendships. Like sometimes you have work friends that like bring you joy during the day and then like when you leave work, they’re not. I’m gonna stay in your lap job. You’re not gonna in your life. Oh yeah. No.
Julie: I’ve had coworkers before that I would’ve probably said to you like, this person is like my best friend.
And I knew that the minute that we stopped working together, we were probably never gonna talk again. And that Right. You know, I have a former coworker who I would’ve said at the time, yeah. He was my best friend. Like, and he knew like so much about me and like, we’re not. Not friends anymore. Like I’d be so excited if I saw him.
It comes to my birthday, we went to each other’s weddings. We’re still friendly, but it’s not that like day to day because you are physically in the same place every single day. Um, and I definitely felt that way. Probably a lot about Dallas Theater. Lauren and I both come from a theater background and I.
Would definitely say that there were people that I was friends with, like, because I was in shows with them, because I would see them at shows, because I would see them at those different events. And when I walked away from theater, not necessarily consciously, I kind of just let most of those people go.
’cause I was like, yeah, there’s, well, that’s what we talked about. So now we have nothing to talk about.
Lauren: Yeah. They’re circumstantial. And I think, um, I think that that. The other thing that I, as someone who’s still single and dating, you’re married, so you might have a, an interesting perspective on this. I think also the thing that is true about friendship, I don’t see friendship as that much different than dating in some regard, right?
Mm-hmm. Two people have to show up to it. One person cannot make a friendship.
Julie: Yeah. And you have to like being around the other person. Yeah. There’s a lot of aspects that I think you could say are. Part of both things.
Lauren: Yeah. And like I’ve pulled people, Annie being one of them, but she and I were different.
We were like obsessed with each other. When we worked together, we lived together. And that’s somebody you worked with and you’re still friends with? Still. And so, and, and I have another, like my friend Ethan from, uh, when I was teaching at SMU, like I’ve pulled him, but it requires both of us being like.
Let’s pull each other through into the next phase of life and let’s find things to talk about that aren’t the job we used to share, although we still like to gossip about that. Um, you know, so I think it requires two people to make that happen.
Julie: I will say like one of my best work friends and like, yeah, we’ve talked about like other miscellaneous things.
Like she has a kid, I have a kid, we’ve talked about kid things, but the thing that brought us together when we were friends, we sat next to each other during. Like the box office at every single Mavs game for like three seasons. And the thing that still brings us together is Bravo text each other all the time about Bravo.
And like to me, I’d be like, yeah, I’m so close to her. Like even though maybe I don’t necessarily know, like her parents’ name or her like day to day. So that is like fascinating.
Lauren: I mean, I think you and I don’t share a lot of our like. Exact interests, but we have a similar sense of humor.
Julie: I, yes to humor. A hundred percent.
And like, we like some of the same things, but like you are an art critic and you go to, you write about a lot of art. You go to a lot of art. And that does not interest me. Like give me a, like a science museum any day, but like an art museum. And I’m like, uh, okay.
Lauren: Yeah, we just like different things and I think it, yeah, I think that’s, it’s also nice too because some, like, I remember I got invited to like a Halloween, um, Bravo Housewives party and I texted you, I was like, oh yeah, help. I don’t know who to be, I don’t know anything about this. Can you please tell me, like, who would be easy to pull costume?
Oh, I forgot about
Julie: that. And you were like, oh, man, what a good Halloween party pictures. You’re
Lauren: like. All you gotta do is pull your slick your hair back. For this girl, all you gotta do is to, you could carry a little stuffed dog and be the Countess or, yes. I am
Julie: also the queen of low maintenance costumes.
Like if I have to do more than like iron letters on a t-shirt, like not going, like, it has to be like the absolute bare minimum. And then I’m like there. Um, do you think that like. With communication, sales and stuff like, do you think there is a such thing, because I have an opinion on this, but do you think there’s such a thing as a low maintenance friendship or do you think that’s just like code for neglect?
Um, because I think people would be hotly divided on that.
Lauren: That’s an interesting, that’s a really interesting question. I feel like I, in general in life am a pretty low maintenance person. A lot of things don’t hurt my feelings. That hurt other people’s feelings. Um. So on some level, I think so, yes. But I, I know that like the way I float through life bothers people.
Mm-hmm. Um, and people do feel neglected when, um, we enter into friendships and they have different expectations. Mm-hmm. So I would say, I want to believe the answer to that question is yes, but, but I also think it’s okay to have need. Like, I think, yeah. It’s also okay to like. Sometimes I’m not gonna be the right friend for someone for that reason.
Yeah.
Julie: Um,
Lauren: what’s your answer? No,
Julie: that makes total sense. I am a super, not physically at all, and I’m like, I’m never wearing anything but tennis shoes. But I think that I’m a very high maintenance human and I think that I have a lot of low maintenance friendships because. I’m the person that texts and I don’t care.
Like, I don’t see it as a slight, I feel like, you know, you are there for the big things in my life. Like Lauren was at my wedding, Lauren has met my child. Like Lauren is like a person who has been at, you know, all, every single birthday I’ve ever had. You know, I mean, except for like when we lived in different places, that doesn’t count, but like, you know.
Lauren shows up for the way I need people to show up for me, which I think specifically for someone like me is words of affirmation. And so I think as long as you are a person that expresses what you need to your people, great, and you also acknowledge how other people show up, I think you can totally have a low maintenance friendship.
Lauren: Yeah, I, I don’t know about you. I think sometimes too, again, not, not, I don’t think that friendship is exactly the same as dating, but I genuinely believe I’ve like fallen in love in a whatever. Let’s not turn it into like capital R, but like I’ve fallen in love, like when we met. Oh, friendships,
Julie: friends can absolutely be soulmates.
Absolutely.
Lauren: We, I for sure we had a h like honeymoon period of friendship where it was like, oh yeah, I would hang out with Julie every minute of every day if she wanted to. Like, we will do, we will spend every, we will spend all this time together. And I feel like it can be super heightened. And I know at some point like it’s, it’s stopped or slowed down.
Mm-hmm. And I think being okay, like for me, that happens a lot. I like meet a friend and I will love them to death. I’ll wanna hang out with them all the time. And then that’s not sustainable. No. And so you have to like, if you can let that moment happen where you kind of like are no longer, you know, in, in love, like yeah.
Then I think that that’s a, because we got to know each other so well in that period that I, I know it’s important to show up for you
Julie: a hundred percent and like, especially when you meet people, you know, at the age we did like that kind of like instant magnetic together all the time. Like friendship is super common.
I my. Best friend from college is Melissa and her mom called us Hip warmers because she said we were always attached at, or no, she said we were always attached at the hip, so we called ourselves hip warmers. Yeah, that’s what it was. And we were, we were always attached to the hip. And I have known Melissa, she has been one of my best friends since I was 19 years old, so that is 20 years now.
And we have lived in the same city for the same time period. For exactly one year of our friendship. Yeah. And that’s crazy when I think about that, that I’m like, ’cause then we didn’t like go, like she went, she ended up going to a different college, then she moved to New York and she lives in, you know, Boston now.
And it’s, we’ve never lived in the same place again. And that’s so crazy to me. Like when I think about that. And just for me, I am, I mean, yeah, sure I’m a stage five Clinger, but also like once you are my person and you are just one of my people like you are in for life, like you would have to do something pretty dastardly to get me to end that.
And there’s been, in my adult life, there has been exactly two people that have gotten themselves cut out that way. And that’s, that’s it. I mean, except for. Like business friends and stuff that are, some of them I’m very, very, very close to in the last five years. There’s nobody in my life that’s like important to me that I’ve known for less than 10 years, except for my husband and my child.
Isn’t that nuts?
Lauren: That’s lovely. Okay. So my little sister is going through a season of friendship with one of her friends, and we were talking about like, sometimes your friends go to Bo. What? I’ve heard someone call Boyfriend Island and they kind of like disappear on you for a minute, right? And you’re like, Hmm.
Common like mid, late twenties era. For sure. Totally. I mean, it happened to me with a friend like last year. Yeah. And it’s, and it, and it, it happens. I’ve been guilty of it. We’ve all been guilt, like, I think, um, but I think knowing that they’re gonna come back, that they’re knowing that that person will, maybe not immediately, but that they’re gonna make space for you.
Like trusting that. I think. I think when you trust your friends, that they are in it with you as well. Yes. Then you’re not worried they go to Boyfriend Island for six months. Maybe that’s their, the love of their life or maybe it’s someone they’re going to need you on the other side of.
Julie: Yeah. And unless the dude is super bad to them or they’re doing that BS like ping pong breaking up every five seconds thing, like Right.
Just be there for them. Please be there for them. When they come back to you, they will need you. Right,
Lauren: right. I mean, I think, I think that’s kind of it, right? It’s like. Getting close to people, trusting that they’re, and also trusting that you’re someone worth being friends with. ’cause I feel like a lot of people who are lonely don’t, sometimes you have friends and you don’t think you have friends.
You know? ’cause you think Yeah. And I, and that breaks my heart because I think actually I’ll be
Julie: their friend. I know I’ll be your friend.
Lauren: You can come to my party, I’ll introdu. I might not be able to be your best friend, but I can introduce you to five new people. Heck
Julie: yeah.
Lauren: Life is more fun with friends. A
Julie: hundred percent.
What do you think makes a friendship worth the effort in your thirties or forties that might not have felt important in your twenties
Lauren: Conversation?
Julie: Yes. Yeah. That is not just like gossip about people, you know?
Lauren: Mm-hmm.
Julie: Yeah.
Lauren: Like, what are you watching? What are you thinking about it? Where’d you go this weekend?
That was interesting. Um, you know, where do you wanna travel? You know, and I think like, even like now that you are a mom, it, it’s nice to watch people I love go through that phase of life too. Mm-hmm. Because it’s not necessarily a choice I’m making right now. And, and so to watch other people, I, I think being curious about each other, but also being able to.
Yeah, talk about and just talk, like, you don’t, we don’t go, I, I go out dancing like once a month, but like that’s not a normal, we, we sit around, you sit around with your friends, so you have to be able to have a conversation.
Julie: I think that my answer for that would be, people that are excited for you is one of.
Like the biggest things that has like made friendships sustainable as I’ve gotten older. Like, ’cause I’m, you know, gonna hit 40 soon. Um, and I think that especially like growing up in a theater world and then doing theater in college and you know, whether you want it to be or not, it’s all a competition and.
So it’s easy to kind of be like, oh, you got the solo. Congrats. Oh, you got the part I wanted. Congrats. And now like anytime one of my friends, you know, does something you know big in their life, like a career shift or just wins an award or just like anything like, I just love being excited for people and I always want people in my life who are excited.
For me and who will say my name, you know, kindly when I’m not around, whom will mention my name in rooms I’m not in. I think things like that are very important. Yeah. And they’re not qualities that I would’ve necessarily thought of when I was in my
Lauren: twenties. Yeah, and it’s funny too, ’cause you can feel those things in your body like.
Yes. I think like, I, I made a new friend this year who I really love, but we were both up for tenure track jobs. Oh. Um, different departments, like not competing with one another. Oh, okay. I didn’t get it. I didn’t get mine. She got hers and I knew I really liked her as a friend because I, not, a single part of me was like, oh, I was just like that excited.
Yeah. You were just so happy for her. Yeah. Oh, and I was like, oh, I love, love that’re, we’re really friends because we’re not that weird. Like. Competitive. Yeah. I was like, oh, I’m just genuinely happy for this person and what this means for their life. Love that. And think you feel like you. You can feel it.
Julie: Ugh. All right. That is our time on friendship. Before we shut it down, let’s get somewhat off topic and talk about one of the most sacred things of all. Iconic TV friendships. Um, I gotta give it up to three of my favorites, which are Leslie and Anne from Parks and Rec. Sorry, Ben and Chris, but they have the ultimate.
I love you and I like you energy, Sean and Gus, psych, chaos, loyalty, and a million inside jokes. I don’t think you can be true friends without inside jokes. I’m upset. I love inside jokes, uh, and JD and Turk from Scrubs, pure platonic soulmates. And I think some of the things that I like best about. Each of those three is that they are real life friends and they were not real life friends before the show.
Like, especially like Psych and Scrubs. I mean, you know, maybe they did one reading together before they got cast, but they didn’t know each other before that first day on set. And they are like, both pairs are like a best friends, like in each other’s weddings kind of things. And I just love that.
Lauren: Yeah. You are so Leslie Knope.
Julie: Oh my God. To a t embarrassingly. So, wow. I’m actually currently eating a waffle. Yeah. I
Lauren: mean, I’ve eaten mini
Julie: a
Lauren: waffle with you late at night.
Julie: Oh gosh. Buzz bruise, man. I miss that place. Okay. Is there an iconic TV deal that you would love to Third wheel with?
Lauren: No. Leslie and Ann
Julie: Best, I’m watching
Lauren: Parks and Rec right now and.
Like their energy to is just, and, and it, and very much their friendship reminds me of my friendship with you. But I think your friendship with lots of other people too, you have a lot of hands in your life. Oh, that’s such
Julie: a compliment. Oh my gosh, that’s so nice. Oh, I have loved this conversation. I have loved our time.
Uh, everyone please find me over at Instagram, at Dallas Girl Friday and tell me who. You would love to third wheel with what Iconic TV duo. Thanks everyone.
