The System for High-Touch Without High-Stress with Taylor Hedden

Julie Fried (00:00.44)
Today’s system tip: high touch should not mean I haven’t had a peaceful vacation since 2021. Today’s guest is someone who has spent years helping business owners untangle the back-end chaos they’ve accidentally built for themselves and turn it into something that actually supports their life. Taylor Hedden has been building brands since she was 17. Now she’s a Dub Sato certified specialist and founder of Chanel and Lee, a million-dollar consulting studio.

That’s helped over 300 founders build client experiences that actually match the brand they’ve worked so hard to create. She’s also the founder of Create Media and 713 Photo Booth, host of the Ironically Serious podcast, and a speaker and educator who has built a career on helping founders work smarter. And honestly, this episode feels especially timely because somewhere along the way, good customer service became synonymous with.

Constant availability. We have convinced ourselves that being responsive at all hours is what makes clients feel cared for when in reality, most clients just want clarity, consistency, and confidence that they’re being taken care of. Taylor’s approach is all about creating systems that feel human, intentional, and thoughtful while also protecting your actual energy and capacity. So today we’re talking about what founders tend to overcomplicate, what clients actually notice and

How to build a client journey that runs smoothly even when you’re offline. Welcome Taylor. Thank you for being here.

Taylor Hedden (01:26.115)
Hi Julie, thank you. That was a great intro. Fantastic.

Julie Fried (01:29.646)
All right, we’re gonna start as we always do with the system reboot, a quick reset to start our episode with some humor and humanity. All right, which T V personality, real or fictional, would be the absolute worst virtual assistant?

Taylor Hedden (01:44.746)
that is such a good question. Probably Carrie Bradshaw. She would be terrible. She’d be all over the place and send you something at 2 a.m. So yeah, she’d be terrible.

Julie Fried (01:51.154)
my god, she would be so bad.

Julie Fried (01:57.886)
yes. What is one tiny inconvenience that just instantly ruins your day?

Taylor Hedden (02:05.433)
having to get gas when you don’t plan on getting gas. Terrible.

Julie Fried (02:11.561)
It is the worst when you’re out running errands in I mean, we both are are in Texas in the middle of summer when you’re like that two PM errand and you’re like, no, gas right now? No. All right, what is a scent that makes you so happy?

Taylor Hedden (02:16.194)
Yes.

Taylor Hedden (02:22.857)
Yep. It’s disgusting.

Taylor Hedden (02:30.723)
Ooh, Santal. That’s anything with Santal, perfume, candle, lotion, that is my jam.

Julie Fried (02:38.893)
Okay, I don’t even know that smell. I love it. okay.

Taylor Hedden (02:41.177)
It’s like a sandalwood, yeah, it’s really good.

Julie Fried (02:44.907)
Alright, everyone, you’ve met the personality now, meet the powerhouse. Today we are talking about why so many founders accidentally build client experiences that depend entirely on them personally showing up for every single step, and why that eventually becomes unsustainable. Because somewhere along the way, a lot of us started equating premium experience with overfunctioning, constant check-ins, constant availability, constant emotional support through every tiny logistical moment. But the irony is that

Businesses that feel the most trustworthy usually aren’t the ones running on panic and manual follow-up. They’re the ones where everything feels clear and seamless and intentional behind the scenes. So today Taylor is walking us through how to create a high touch experience that doesn’t require high stress operations. Here’s my conversation with Taylor Hedden on the system for high touch without high stress. All right, was there for you a specific moment or season of your life where you realized the being constantly available?

wasn’t actually serving your clients or yourself.

Taylor Hedden (03:46.562)
Yeah, totally. So I started Chanel and Lee actually as a virtual assistant business in 2019 under a different name. But I was obviously in a season of growth. So I was putting a lot of time into the business, but I was available constantly. If a client texted me, I’d respond right away. If I got an email, I felt like I had to respond immediately or implement whatever they were requesting of me. And I was a new mom. So I literally had, you know, a two-month-old baby whenever I took the business full time. And it was

was so unrealistic to be available twenty four seven. Not only did it create

Obviously a lot of tension on my end of feeling kind of angsty and not loving the work I was doing. But then it didn’t create any consistency for the clients because as soon as they sent something or did something, it’s like that availability didn’t availability didn’t have any boundaries of knowing, okay, when is the timeline? When do things get done? When is the communication? And that should also be on their end too, like respecting their own boundaries instead of, you know, sending me an email at 2 a.m. I’m like, why are you working at 2 a.m.? Go to bed.

Julie Fried (04:39.309)
Mm.

Julie Fried (04:48.459)
Yeah.

Okay.

Taylor Hedden (04:52.793)
So yeah.

Julie Fried (04:54.219)
Why do you think, you know, creatives especially really struggle to just let systems do their job?

Taylor Hedden (05:01.357)
You know, I feel people think if they implement systems or especially automated systems that they’re going to lose personal touch. And I hear that so often with my line of work, especially in businesses where you are the business. You know, maybe you’re a photographer, you’re a planner, or you’re a brand and web designer. And so much of you and your relationship is part of that business. And so they think, well, if I automate things, people are gonna know it’s automated, they’re gonna think I’m not paying attention or it doesn’t feel sincere.

personalized, but then we actually miss out on the intention we can give when it’s actually time for us to show up and personalize something because now we’ve burnt out, you know, through all of that back and stuff that we could be automating. And so I think that’s the number one thing I hear when people fear automating, especially like the communication side of their business.

Julie Fried (05:52.172)
I think a lot of people are listening and they’re gonna realize they’re not actually like running a client experience. They’re running like a constant state of emotional triage. So I wanna talk about what clients really notice versus what we think they notice. So what are some of the touch points that clients remember most?

Taylor Hedden (06:02.42)
Yes.

Taylor Hedden (06:14.998)
I always say the most impact you have is really in your inquiry to booking phase, just because that is their unless of course, you know, they interact with you on socials or your website, that’s their first real interaction with you. And that’s really gonna set the tone. So if you’re responsive and you’re clear and they feel super taken care of, they notice that and it really sets the intention of what they expect throughout the experience. So I feel that is so important and where a lot of business owners kind of miss because they don’t have an automated.

inquiry process or you know their booking process is very choppy and PC and overwhelming and it kind of creates this bad taste for the client even if they do end up booking.

Julie Fried (06:50.56)
Yeah.

Taylor Hedden (06:56.0)
And on the, you know, on the other end, once you’ve booked the client, I feel how you end the experience is also just as important, even more so maybe than like the middle port the middle points, because now you’re wrapping things up and that’s the last interaction they might be having with you. And so you have this other opportunity to really just drive home what that experience felt like, even as you’re done working with them or even beyond working with them.

Julie Fried (07:04.428)
Yeah.

Julie Fried (07:21.761)
What are some backend details that founders obsess over that clients like do not care about? Cause I think there’s probably a lot.

Taylor Hedden (07:27.416)
Yeah. I think it’s a lot of so many one emails. I think we as business owners want everything again to feel so personalized and have all of this, you know, personality and all of these details. And a lot of time it’s just overwhelming. Like there’s just way too much. We are so inundated with information in 2026. People just want to know what do I need to do? What do you want from me? What’s happening next? And so we overcomplicate.

Julie Fried (07:40.929)
Yeah.

Julie Fried (07:49.525)
Yes.

Julie Fried (07:55.648)
Es yes, especially because so many of us are service providers. So somebody that means somebody hired you for a service, y’all. They did not have time to do that thing. Like give the their time back.

Taylor Hedden (08:04.386)
Yep.

Yeah, yeah.

Exactly. Like keeping it short and sweet is so much better for the client than we think it is because we want to overcomplicate. And the other thing I would say too is just too much information, especially when it comes to things that we are creating as assets, whether it’s a proposal, whether it’s even like your website, right? A lot of times we think we need more, more, more, more photos, more words, more this. And again, the chances that they’re even seeing all of that are so slim. They’re again skipping to what do I need to do? What comes next? Where’s the info that I’m looking for?

So even in your, you know, client experience side when they’re working with you, proposals, forms, guides, like we have to trim them down and really just stick with what’s the key information and yes, kind of make it beautiful and cohesive, but a lot of it we can ditch.

Julie Fried (08:57.291)
I think unless you are a copywriter, I’m just not reading every single word on your page. Yeah, I’m hitting where it says investment. I just am. Alright, what is something that makes a process feel luxurious or premium, even if it’s highly automated?

Taylor Hedden (09:03.405)
Literally. I’m like, where’s the next button? That’s what I’m looking for. Right, right. Yeah.

Taylor Hedden (09:18.668)
I think just giving

your clients clear instructions feels premium because again you’re not making them sift through information. It’s kind of like when you go to I always equate it to a luxury hotel. You go to a five-star hotel, right? They make everything so clear to you as soon as you walk in, like they give you the rundown, there might be a QR code. Like you can find information by just snapping your fingers, but it’s not information you don’t need. It’s what you need, right? And they really think about those details to make it so easy for you because you’re paying for that level of experience.

you don’t have to find it yourself, or you don’t have to lift your fingers at every turn. So I think that experience can be so automated, which is wonderful for service providers. But just making those steps clear, which requires the business to know the steps and to make the steps repeatable, which is really important, instead of trying to workshop it every single time they have a new client and everything changes. So they can’t actually automate it.

Julie Fried (10:15.861)
Okay, so now we know what actually matters. I want to get into the mechanics of building a system that supports that experience consistently. What parts of the client process should almost always be automated?

Taylor Hedden (10:21.388)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Hedden (10:30.6)
Mm-hmm. That’s a good question because people think either I can’t automate anything or

Because it’s too complicated, or I want to automate everything and that’s just not realistic. So I say your inquiry process, 1000%, you know, having an automated response, having an automated scheduling system, follow-ups if that person does not book a call with you, and into your booking process. And yes, of course, you’re gonna have to edit your proposal or customize your package, but the actual logistics of when it’s sent and again the follow-ups and when they sign and pay, it triggers the onboarding.

Julie Fried (10:37.837)
Mm-hmm.

Taylor Hedden (11:06.006)
Yeah.

100% of the time that’s automated. At least that’s what we are hoping for. And then, of course, some onboarding things, or you know, when the service kicks off. And then a lot of the times, at least with the businesses I’m working with, that’s where the automation kind of stops, right? You have your internal work to do, you have more personalization, especially in the wedding industry where you have planners where every situation is different, right? But then that offboarding, we can automate that again. So once that experience is wrapped up, we know that we’re gonna send a thank you email. We know we’re gonna request a review.

We might send a happy anniversary or an upsell. So it’s really the beginning and then, you know, the end that we can automate. And the rest, we really just want to think about, you know, are there smaller pieces we can maybe automate in that or even just templatize things so it makes our work faster and again more consistent overall with all of our clients.

Julie Fried (11:55.746)
What are the first systems you would put in place for someone whose back end is currently hot garbage?

Taylor Hedden (12:02.518)
Well, because you know, I’m a Dipsado person, I would say a CRM in general, and Dipsado knight might not be the CRM for you, but having something to handle the client side first and foremost, I mean, there are so many systems and text from project management and you know, we have all of our email marketing and our social stuff. But if you want to continue booking clients and you want raving experience, they have to come first in that. And so if your business is just a dumpster fire, like let’s focus on the client first.

Julie Fried (12:31.799)
Yeah.

Taylor Hedden (12:32.442)
First, you can then free up some time that you’re spending on those super repeatable tasks to give you space to then focus on your internal work and your project management and your team SOPs and like your social stuff, right? A lot of my clients, they’re spread so thin across all of those. And one of the biggest, you know, time back we can give them is just by automating the client stuff because now we’ve freed up hours that they’ve been spending on the client side of admin stuff that they can focus on either their actual.

client work like the service they’re providing or then working on the business instead of having to be in the business, you know, 24-7.

Julie Fried (13:09.921)
What is one Dub Soto workflow or automation piece that saves just an absurd amount of time and you can’t believe more people aren’t utilizing it?

Taylor Hedden (13:20.834)
Probably the proposal contract invoice

Process of having your booking being all on that same form and then pairing that with the automation. Cause I’ll have people come to me who are even immed Ib Soto and they send maybe a PDF proposal or a proposal by itself. And then the con the client has to respond and then they have to prep a contract and then an invoice and then they’re manually sending a follow-up email. And then when the client books, they’re manually starting the next thing. That alone, I mean, I have people who go from it takes me five hours to create a proposal to it takes me five hours.

Julie Fried (13:29.389)
Mm.

Julie Fried (13:45.122)
Yeah.

Taylor Hedden (13:54.346)
five minutes to create it and send it out, especially when that proposal is templated to where all you have to change is the package, even if you need to change the package. I’ve had clients who’ve come to me and say, I don’t even want to get more leads, Taylor, because it takes me so long to create a proposal. And I’m like, how sad is that? Like you don’t even have time to book anyone because you’re fearing how long it’s going to take you just to get them to pay you. And that should never be the case in our business.

Julie Fried (14:10.855)
ho ho

Julie Fried (14:22.894)
How do you build workflows that still work when life gets messy or busy?

Taylor Hedden (14:33.215)
Yeah. I mean I think it again it looks you have to look at where are

The bottlenecks of where we’re spending the most time. So that way you know when life is crazy or busy or you’re like you said, you’re on vacation, you know that if you need to hop in, right? You might have to hop in. But the bulk of those pain points or the bulk of the time you’re spending is taken care of. So if there is a fire or an emergency to in your business, it’s not gonna require you to literally go in and spend hours on something or even just maintain your, you know, your leads or your current clients. So I always tell my clients if you know you’re starting.

With workflows, where are we being held up the most? Or where is your team being held up the most? And let’s start there. Obviously, we can do all of it at once, but starting there, I think, is the the biggest kind of battle you can take on with workflows, and then you can always grow from there to support your life.

Julie Fried (15:29.163)
I I really appreciate your approach because it really feels like it’s not about removing the humanity from business, like you’re just creating more space for it. And I love that. Why do you think that people like us, that founders, creatives, like struggle so much to just trust the systems that they’ve already built? How do you stop double checking every workflow step?

Taylor Hedden (15:39.542)
Mm-hmm.

Julie Fried (15:55.982)
besides obviously hiring a team like yours that knows how to do it in the first place.

Taylor Hedden (15:58.43)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Right. I mean, I think you like you said it’s confidence. Confidence and knowing, is this built right? Did we create something that’s gonna support our clients the right way? Like the communication, the assets, is that all created intentionally? But then honestly, you just ha it’s it’s like riding a bike. You just have to get on the bike and you have to do it. And you might fall, you might have an oops, like it happens. I I even I’m the systems person and sometimes I’ll have a workflow that doesn’t fire off, or I sent something on accident because I was in there, and I’m like, I’m a human and this is tech, and like no business is gonna be

Absolutely perfect 100% of the time. But you just have to trust that what you’ve invested in, whether it’s your time, your resources, who you hired, and doing your research on those, of course, is taking care of itself. And then, of course, checking in on that, right? Just like anything else in life, you go to the doctor, even if you’re not sick, you get a checkup or you go to the dentist. Same thing with your systems. Like you don’t just build them once and walk away. Regularly, regularly checking those. And then, you know, as your clients change. Yeah, right. We don’t go to the dentist just when we have.

Julie Fried (16:56.749)
Good analogy. I love that.

Taylor Hedden (17:01.173)
toothache hopefully everyone’s getting their teeth cleaned but you know same thing right same thing with your systems like do a quick health check you know once a quarter twice a year and especially when you are you know up leveling like maybe you’re doing a rebrand maybe you’re hiring maybe you’re releasing a new service or changing that service go back into the flows and make sure all of that matches what you’re working on

Julie Fried (17:03.787)
Yeah, guys, gotta go to the dentist.

Julie Fried (17:26.413)
Do you think there’s a mindset shift that has to happen before somebody can truly step away from their business for a weekend or like a proper vacation?

Taylor Hedden (17:37.79)
Yeah, I think so. And I mean I’ve I’ve definitely felt this when I was growing my business. I thought if I took a day off, it was gonna everyone was gonna fire me and it was gonna burn down. And it’s such a valid feeling.

Julie Fried (17:45.929)
Yeah. A hundred percent.

Taylor Hedden (17:50.096)
You know, as business owners, we it’s our business. And for a lot of us, we might be solopreneurs or just have, you know, a VA or contractor or a small team. So it’s really hard to pull yourself away from that. So I do think there’s a lot of inner kind of mindset, which I’m not like a woo-woo-y, but you know, just kind of self-awareness of am I taking care of myself? Because at the end of the day, it is a business, but you are a whole human and you have a whole life outside of that business. And if you can’t take care of yourself,

then how can you expect to take care of your clients or even grow your business or be in it long term if that’s your goal? So I think it it’s hard. It’s easier said than done. But once you’ve established the boundaries, they’re there. And it’s so much easier to be like, actually that boundary is in the contract. And I said it in onboarding and it was in the email. You know?

Julie Fried (18:38.861)
Yes, yes, yes.

What does a business look and feel like when the back end is finally supporting the owner instead of draining them?

Taylor Hedden (18:53.109)
I mean, it feels like a business instead of a hobby or instead of something that you are doing as a side hustle, even if it’s not a side hustle. I think that’s the end of the day, right? It is a business. So it needs to operate like a business. You don’t have Walmart like the CEO texting you because your order was messed up, right? There’s a process, there’s a funnel. And I know that’s a big analogy ’cause they have thousands and thousands of employees, but it’s the same concept, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Julie Fried (18:56.399)
Yes.

Julie Fried (19:17.193)
I’m just picturing them telling me they were out of like lactose free milk.

Taylor Hedden (19:21.889)
Like, hey, your order’s delayed. Love you though. Text me later. No. So same thing with the business, right? I think that you just have to really treat it like a business and have that expectation for your clients and for yourself, which again, it’s hard when we’re the usually the sole kind of founder and operator and wear all the hats all the time.

Julie Fried (19:24.541)
sorry, love you.

Julie Fried (19:44.397)
Hundred percent, yeah. Okay, before we wrap up I wanna tell you to tell everyone where they can find you, how they can follow you, how they can work with you.

Taylor Hedden (19:54.259)
Yes, absolutely. So we do, like Julie said with Chanel and Lee, we do system setups in DeB Sado. And this is the strategy, the framework, the build-out, the implementation, the teaching. That is Chanel and Lee on Instagram, LinkedIn. I mean, we’re pretty much everywhere, Chanel and Lee.com.

And then also, as you mentioned, I have some other businesses, more so Houston-based. So if you’re not in Houston, it’s probably not applicable to you. but I’m also on Instagram as tay.headin, which is a mix of jujitsu and random fashion things. So nothing business related there really.

Julie Fried (20:30.413)
I mean, your fashion’s always fire. I’m always swiping up with that fire emoji for you. All right, before we end today, I want to pivot from a fish and systems expert to person who has absolutely spiraled after sending an invoice because today’s system shutdown is business things that weirdly feel more intimate than therapy. Number one, sending a just checking in email and then immediately overanalyzing the wording.

Taylor Hedden (20:34.244)
my god, thank you. Thank you.

Taylor Hedden (20:52.457)
Interesting.

Julie Fried (20:59.093)
Number two, asking for a testimonial. Number three, accidentally sharing your screen with 48 tabs open. Number four, telling a client that’s outside scope. And finally, seeing, can we hop on a quick call with absolutely no context?

If this episode made you realize your client experience currently depends on caffeine, adrenaline, and remembering things at random moments throughout the day, send it to a business owner friend who needs to hear it too. And if you enjoyed this episode, make sure you’re subscribed to the system for everything wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave a rating or review. It genuinely helps more people find out about the show, and I appreciate it more than you know. See you next week.

This episode is brought to you by The Entrepreneur’s Death Folder:

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The Entrepreneur’s Death Folder is a step-by-step digital workbook that helps business owners organize everything someone else would need to temporarily or permanently run their business. From passwords and finances to client information, workflows, and emergency plans, it’s your business continuity plan in one searchable place.

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It’s not about preparing for the worst. It’s about creating peace of mind for the people who would need it most.

Why Constant Availability Isn’t Great Customer Service

Many entrepreneurs believe that premium service means always being available. Taylor explains why that mindset often creates burnout instead of a better client experience. Clients aren’t looking for immediate responses to every message—they’re looking for consistency, clarity, and confidence that they’re being taken care of. Thoughtful systems create those feelings far better than constant availability ever can.

The Client Experience Touchpoints People Actually Remember

Business owners often spend hours perfecting things clients barely notice while overlooking the moments that matter most.

Taylor shares why the inquiry process sets the tone for the entire relationship, how a smooth booking experience builds trust before any work begins, and why offboarding is one of the biggest missed opportunities to leave clients feeling cared for long after the project ends.

What Should (and Shouldn’t) Be Automated

Not everything belongs inside a workflow—but much more can be automated than most founders realize.

Taylor walks through the parts of a client journey that should almost always happen automatically, including inquiries, scheduling, contracts, invoices, onboarding, follow-ups, review requests, and offboarding. She also explains where personalization still matters most and why automation should support relationships instead of replacing them.

Building Systems That Support Your Life

A good workflow doesn’t just save time on a normal Tuesday—it protects your business during vacations, emergencies, and busy seasons.

Julie and Taylor discuss why founders struggle to trust their own systems, how regularly reviewing workflows keeps them healthy, and why sustainable businesses are built on repeatable processes rather than constant founder involvement.

A Business Shouldn’t Depend on One Person

One of the biggest mindset shifts in this conversation is recognizing that a real business shouldn’t rely on one person remembering every detail.

As Taylor puts it, businesses that feel the most professional operate with clear processes—not because they’re impersonal, but because those systems create space for better relationships, healthier boundaries, and founders who actually have lives outside of work.

Connect with Taylor and Links From the Episode

Chanel & Lee

Chanel & Lee Instagram

Ironically Serious Podcast

Dubsado